[andrei]

---

IMP

1. agree with biding so far?
2. what now?

[han]

And now you pass.

[aguahombre]

Pass. Apparently I already decided not to show, or couldn't show, 8 offensive tricks and let pard guess.

So, I won't do anything, now either.

[blackshoe]

How many offensive tricks does 4♠ show then?

Agree with pass, because I've already shown my hand.

[aguahombre]

blackshoe, on 2011-May-01, 19:15, said:

How many offensive tricks does 4♠ show then?

Agree with pass, because I've already shown my hand.

7 or 7 and a half in my world, but here and now -- why do I think they will make exactly 12 tricks (not 13 or 11)? So that is no-longer important. Gotta pass whether I have shown my hand or not.

[Siegmund]

Disciplined, no, I have 8 tricks on offense and 0 on defense, where I will more often have 7 and 1.

But it's a reasonable decision to open, and having done it, I think you're committed to sticking to it, unless you have negative slam doubles on your card.

[gnasher]

Siegmund, on 2011-May-01, 21:45, said:

unless you have negative slam doubles on your card.

Even if you had, they wouldn't apply here, would they? Playing negative slam doubles, if you determine that you don't have two defensive tricks you're forced to save. Therefore a prerequisite is that the auction alone should say that we have a worthwhile save. An unsupported preempt doesn't say that.

[han]

blackshoe, on 2011-May-01, 19:15, said:

How many offensive tricks does 4♠ show then?

Agree with pass, because I've already shown my hand.

Strongly disagree that we have shown our hand. Maybe your partner expects KQ-9th for a 4S opening, but mine surely doesn't.

As I posted before, I think we have a clear pass over 6C. We have no reason to think that they are making 6C. The bidding makes it likely that RHO has diamond length so our diamond king could easily be a trick. The opponents were under pressure so who knows, partner can easily have one or even two tricks. We do have extra spade length, but it is not even close to being spectacular enough to bid 6S over 6C. If 6C makes, then 6S is probably down 1100 on average, with some 1400's. So that's only a small win and may even be a small loss. If 6C goes down then 6S will probably go for 800, 1100 or 1400, and bidding would be a huge loss.

[blackshoe]

han, on 2011-May-02, 02:35, said:

Strongly disagree that we have shown our hand. Maybe your partner expects KQ-9th for a 4S opening, but mine surely doesn't.

How would you have opened it, then?

[gnasher]

A 4♠ opening is the closest description, but that doesn't mean that when we open 4♠ partner will expect this hand. He won't, simply because 7- and 8-card suits are so much more common than 9-card suits.

[aguahombre]

Hey, Han: You left out 2140, in case you haven't shown enough reasons to pass, already.

[Siegmund]

Quote

Even if you had, they wouldn't apply here, would they? Playing negative slam doubles, if you determine that you don't have two defensive tricks you're forced to save. Therefore a prerequisite is that the auction alone should say that we have a worthwhile save. An unsupported preempt doesn't say that.

The combination of it being IMPs and the opponents being in a minor (and us possibly helping push them to a grand) are probably good reasons to have them not apply. And my partner, at least, would agree with the general principle that unsupported preempts don't put us in negative-slam-double auctions.

But the auction alone does say 6S will cost at most 1400, which makes this darn close to an auction where the auction alone says we have a save. (My partner and I had a similar accident once, where I knew a save existed and he didn't. And yes, we kept them on the card anyway, after refining our agreements about them a bit further.)

[aguahombre]

Siegmund, on 2011-May-02, 22:06, said:

But the auction alone does say 6S will cost at most 1400, which makes this darn close to an auction where the auction alone says we have a save.

Hmmm.
-1400 or -800 vs 1370 ...maybe that one
-1400 or -800 vs +100
-1400 or -800 vs -2140

[han]

gnasher, on 2011-May-02, 07:23, said:

A 4♠ opening is the closest description, but that doesn't mean that when we open 4♠ partner will expect this hand. He won't, simply because 7- and 8-card suits are so much more common than 9-card suits.

Exactly.