BBO Discussion Forums: Do We Ever Find Heart Fit Here? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Do We Ever Find Heart Fit Here?

#1 User is offline   gurgistan 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 203
  • Joined: 2010-January-06

Posted 2011-April-20, 04:00



Partner is a random unknown. I read his profile. We are playing 2/1.

Do we ever find the 8-card heart fit here?

I can't see beyond bidding 3N.
0

#2 User is offline   JLOGIC 

  • 2011 Poster of The Year winner
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,002
  • Joined: 2010-July-08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-April-20, 04:48

1S-1N-3H-3S-4H-p on this hand. 3N is a very bad bid.

But, you are right, it is a general problem that the jumpshift to 3H can be 4 or 5 so sometimes a 5-3 fit is missed when partner has a 3N bid. A "common" treatment around here is to use an artificial 1S-1N-3C bid as clubs, or a jump shift with 4 hearts, or a spade 1 suiter, so that 1S-1N-3H can be 5. Without artificiality, you have to live with missing your fit sometimes I guess.
2

#3 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,011
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2011-April-20, 05:04

3NT says "I don't care about your spades! I don't care about your hearts! we're playing here!"

you have an almost-fit in spades and an almost-fit in hearts, and you don't have a club stopper and the diamond stopper is a little suit-oriented.

so 3NT is a bad bid. 3 is just waiting. that's what you should do.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#4 User is offline   gurgistan 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 203
  • Joined: 2010-January-06

Posted 2011-April-20, 05:39

Thanks guys!

I think I get it.

3 is the bid as with his strong jump shift, I would bid 4 with 3-card support so 3 shows only 2-card support and Partner should not go to 4, he would bid 3N and we are right-sided.

Also, the conclusion seems to be that 4 cannot be found without some prior agreed method for this spot.
0

#5 User is offline   JLOGIC 

  • 2011 Poster of The Year winner
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,002
  • Joined: 2010-July-08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-April-20, 05:44

 gurgistan, on 2011-April-20, 05:39, said:



Also, the conclusion seems to be that 4 cannot be found without some prior agreed method for this spot.


Huh? Over 3S, partner would bid 4H, showing 5-5, which you would pass.
0

#6 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,011
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2011-April-20, 08:34

 gurgistan, on 2011-April-20, 05:39, said:

Thanks guys!

you're welcome, but..

Quote

I think I get it.

I'm afraid not :(

Quote


3 is the bid as with his strong jump shift, I would bid 4 with 3-card support so 3 shows only 2-card support

No. Some people like to bid 4 with 3 spades but 10-12 points, but it's probably not standard. Just bid 3 with 2-3 spades, and sometimes you will have to bid 3 even with a singleton. It's a waiting bid.

Quote

and Partner should not go to 4, he would bid 3N and we are right-sided.

As JLOGIC above said, no, he wouldn't. He would bid 4 with 6-4 or 4 with 5-5, so in this case he would bid 4.

Quote



Also, the conclusion seems to be that 4 cannot be found without some prior agreed method for this spot.

JLOGIC covered this well.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#7 User is offline   gurgistan 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 203
  • Joined: 2010-January-06

Posted 2011-April-20, 11:18

I love this game. There is so much to learn.

I am indebted to all who replied.
0

#8 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2011-April-20, 14:40

 JLOGIC, on 2011-April-20, 04:48, said:

A "common" treatment around here is to use an artificial 1S-1N-3C bid as clubs, or a jump shift with 4 hearts, or a spade 1 suiter, so that 1S-1N-3H can be 5.


Justin, i did not know this and liked it. How does it go after 3 ? Does responder relay ?
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





0

#9 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,011
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2011-April-20, 15:03

http://justinlall.wo...9/04/04/hearts/

oh I thought there were more details. anyway nice explanatory post
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
1

#10 User is offline   Quantumcat 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 944
  • Joined: 2007-April-11
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Bathurst, Australia
  • Interests:Archery, classical guitar, piano, watercolour painting, programming, french

Posted 2011-April-20, 17:33

It could go

1 - 1NT
3 - 3
4 - Pass
I Transfers
0

#11 User is offline   JLOGIC 

  • 2011 Poster of The Year winner
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,002
  • Joined: 2010-July-08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-April-20, 17:38

 MrAce, on 2011-April-20, 14:40, said:

Justin, i did not know this and liked it. How does it go after 3 ? Does responder relay ?


Responder asks with 3D, but should be careful to remember to bid 3H rather than 3D if he has 5+ hearts. This is so he can still get to hearts opp 5314/6304/5305, and also if partner has a 1 suiter in spades with 3 hearts and hearts is right.
0

#12 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,397
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2011-April-21, 06:38

1-1NT
2NT

GF balanced or 5+4 red, 3 asks.

Pretty simple.

You can also throw in the 6+ spades GF hand if you need to.
0

#13 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

  • Limit bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,482
  • Joined: 2004-November-02
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, classical music, skiing... but I spend more time earning a living than doing any of those

Posted 2011-April-23, 06:04

or
1S - 1NT
3C = game forcing with diamonds
3D = game forcing with hearts
3H = 5-5 invitational
3S = game forcing with spades

(good hands with clubs start with 2C, which is multi-way and forcing)
1

#14 User is online   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,604
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-April-25, 15:14

Hi,

With the given hand, you can bid 4H over the 3NT response,
that will show at least show 5-5, the justification being
the concentration of values.

If you play some art. stuff after the forcing NT, it should
be possible to show the 5-5 pattern.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#15 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,247
  • Joined: 2010-October-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 2011-April-25, 17:20

 gurgistan, on 2011-April-20, 04:00, said:



Partner is a random unknown. I read his profile. We are playing 2/1.

Do we ever find the 8-card heart fit here?

I can't see beyond bidding 3N.

Here is an interesting suggestion by straube for the sequence
1S - 1NT!, 3H - ?? from Feb, 2010:

http://www.bridgebas...-to-jump-shift/

He uses 3S! ( by Responder ) as a relay so he can have 2-ways to make 4-level bids :

1S-1N, 3H-3S!, 3N! ( asks for more info ) - ??
.....4C-two-fit in spades
..........4H-5/5
.....4D-medium hand for hearts
.....4H-weak hand for hearts

1S-1N, 3H-3S!, ??
.....4C-7/4 ( I think he meant this as 7/5 )
.....4D-6/5
.....4H-5/5 stronger ( than above 4H = 5/5 )
.....

1S-1N, 3H- ??
.....3N-good hand, no fit
.....4m-good hand, minor
.....4M-good hand, major
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
0

#16 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,091
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2011-April-25, 17:42

 JLOGIC, on 2011-April-20, 17:38, said:

Responder asks with 3D, but should be careful to remember to bid 3H rather than 3D if he has 5+ hearts. This is so he can still get to hearts opp 5314/6304/5305, and also if partner has a 1 suiter in spades with 3 hearts and hearts is right.


A tweak that I play is that responder can skip the relay with 3 spades (3 over 3 is limit, 4 is the junk raise / semi-psyche). Therefore, if responder gives delayed preference, opener knows its based on doubleton support.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#17 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,614
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2011-April-25, 17:55

 gurgistan, on 2011-April-20, 04:00, said:



Partner is a random unknown. I read his profile. We are playing 2/1.

Do we ever find the 8-card heart fit here?

I can't see beyond bidding 3N.


Your partner should bid 3S over 3H. You have an obvious 4H bid.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users