[whereagles]

National team trials, matchpoints, expert field.

---

1♦ = planning to bid hearts twice later.
3♣ = "what is it?"; "hmmm... ahem... right. Majors."
3♥ = guess I'll keep it low for the moment.

So, what now?

[quiddity]

I think you have to double now to show your high-card strength.

edit: Maybe 3NT is a better way to show strength since it also shows the black suit distribution. This hand is really prime though - we could be cold for slam opposite some weak hands even with club waste.

[Fluffy]

I don't understand this one, did west alert 3♣ as majors? did we bid anything but double? why I didn't open my major is another question.

[whereagles]

quiddity, on 2011-April-19, 10:14, said:

I think you have to double now to show your high-card strength.

Dbl now would be pure penalty.

[whereagles]

Fluffy, on 2011-April-19, 15:15, said:

1. I don't understand this one, did west alert 3♣ as majors?
2. did we bid anything but double?
3. why I didn't open my major is another question.

1. I put the problem as it happened at the table. West did alert and explained it as majors. You can assume it is indeed the majors, otherwise you're protected by the laws and entitled to redress if there is damage to your side.

2. Yes we did. You wanted to dbl 3♣ for penalties? Well, they bid voluntarily to 3♠.. You can dbl that now.

3. Because your author, against his principles but totally in conviction, for once decided against using a forcing opener or opening the major. The reasoning is if this doesn't get passed out, he'd be in excellent shape to show this kind of hand. Or so he thought... For instance, if RHO didn't make a nuisance of himself, it might have gone

1♦ 1NT
2♥ 2/3x
3♥ etc

By agreement, this auction would show a 6-5 with 3-4 losers. Just what you have

[quiddity]

edit: sorry, nm.
Do you have any relevant agreements about the 3♥ bid after they show the majors?

[Fluffy]

I would bid 3NT over 3♠

[Free]

Since we're nicely protected, there seems nothing wrong with a simple 4♦ forcing.

[Cyberyeti]

Would the 1N bidder's jump shift have been weak or strong ?

I can't help visualising xxx, xx, J, KQ10xxxx opposite.

It's a powerful hand, but I'm not sure how much I like the auction at this point.

[gnasher]

whereagles, on 2011-April-19, 16:50, said:

You can assume it is indeed the majors, otherwise you're protected by the laws and entitled to redress if there is damage to your side.

Not necessarily. If they can show that systemically it's the majors but RHO has misbid, there is no misinformation and no redress.

[gwnn]

Not to be racist but in Portugal chances are opps don't have a CC, hence there's little to persuade us about systemic agreements.

[whereagles]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-April-20, 08:17, said:

1. Would the 1N bidder's jump shift have been weak or strong ?

2. I can't help visualising xxx, xx, J, KQ10xxxx opposite.

1. Neither. It would have been invitational with both minors.

2. Pard would have bid 1NT with that hand, yes. However, he's the sort of person who might have bid 4♣ over 3♠ with it.

[whereagles]

As for what 3♣ is, let's cut the story short: the player did have the majors.

[whereagles]

Ok, pard had

xxx
T98
J9x
AQxx

Hoping for a heart short across, I took a shot at 6♦. That and got dbled by LHO, who had ♦QTxx. Couldn't do anything with the hearts, so this went a couple down. But it wasn't all too bad because some pairs bid all the way to SEVEN

Bit of a trap hand, but in retrospect I think now I'd settle for a quiet 4♦. Pard would probably raise to 5 and I'd have to be very brave and stand ground.

[Fluffy]

did you really think about slam when RHO has shown 5+♥ and you are void in partner's suit?.

good choice of opening 4♥ doesn't look promising, and probably I'd play more after a raise.

[kayin801]

If 3♣ showed the majors then with my partner I just showed a huge hand with 5+ diamonds and 4+ clubs with my "3♥ cuebid", or some such.

Just cause we have a club void doesn't mean that the 3♣ bidder is lying, they could be 5-5-3 or 6-5-3 or 6-4-3 around the table. Along those same lines, bidding 3♥ if it's nat seems crazy to me.

Don't ask me what we should have bid. 3NT, hoping for 5♦, 2♥, and 2♠? 4♦ since partner rates to have something in the suit on this auction? No freaking clue.

[whereagles]

Fluffy, on 2011-April-21, 05:13, said:

1. did you really think about slam when RHO has shown 5+♥ and you are void in partner's suit?.

2. good choice of opening 4♥ doesn't look promising, and probably I'd play more after a raise.

1. Yeah, why not? Unless pard has a bucketload of clubs, in which case he could have bid 4♣, he rates to have a heart less and a diamond more, say

xxx
xx
Qxxx
Axxx

This isn't even near the best hand he could have, though it's also true he could have had a considerably worse one.

Edit: ran a sim and got these averages

2.28386 spades
1.53083 hearts
3.19235 diamonds
5.99296 clubs
7.65959 hcp, of which 5.14062 are in clubs (i.e. wastage)

Seems like hoping for 4 diamonds across is optimistic, though heart short is indeed normal.

2. It's very rare for me to bid it like this, but I had the feeling this was the right hand to go against my own principles. Seems like I was right, but then failed to capitalize, ahah

[whereagles]

kayin801, on 2011-April-21, 07:08, said:

If 3♣ showed the majors then with my partner I just showed a huge hand with 5+ diamonds and 4+ clubs with my "3♥ cuebid", or some such.

Just cause we have a club void doesn't mean that the 3♣ bidder is lying, they could be 5-5-3 or 6-5-3 or 6-4-3 around the table. Along those same lines, bidding 3♥ if it's nat seems crazy to me.

Don't ask me what we should have bid. 3NT, hoping for 5♦, 2♥, and 2♠? 4♦ since partner rates to have something in the suit on this auction? No freaking clue.

3♥ wasn't meant as natural

The simulation advises caution. That means the better bid would have been.... 3NT. Hamman RULES

[Fluffy]

instead of calculating card averages just calcualte the average number of tricks in diamonds double dummy and see that 11 will probably too many.


Partner with heart shortness and diamond support doesn't bid 1NT in a normal system.

[whereagles]

Don't have a dbl-dummy simulator lol.

Partner with heart shortness and diamond support doesn't bid 1NT in a normal system.

huh? From the sim, the average hand in pard is

xx
xx
Qxx
KQxxxx

Pretty clear 1NT bid for me