[the_clown]

Hi all, Me and my p have been playing 2/1 for some time and we have an agreement that 1M-2m-2M shows a 6 card suit. This means that with minimum Strenght and 5-4 we rebid 2nt. The problem is that after that the 3NT contract is often wrongsided. (Declarer has a singletone in the inbid suit). On the other hand I like that 2M shows 6cards, and we are able to find our fit on the second level. Feel free to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both methods and share your experience

[mike777]

I also play 2 rebids promises 6 cards but my other rebids are natural and do not show or deny extra strength. Responder assumes opener has a minimum hand. Because we open all bal 11 counts responder will have a good hand to make a 2/1 gf and will very very often be the stronger hand and very often opener will have the minimum hand.

The big worry in this style always seems to be "but how do we know if opener has extras". In fact this is very seldom an issue. If opener has a lot of extras he can bid on. That leaves a few in between hands that you learn to live with.
--

There is also a toy that you can use that takes a little work.
After 1M=2C: 2d shows a 6M or a 5-(3-3-2) minimum and a 2M shows diamonds (5-4,5-5 or 6-4 with extras).

After 1M-2c-2d-2h asks (the normal bid) and opener bids:

2S=6+ of major and no side suit
2N=5--3-3-2 (11-13 or 12-14). If 3 clubs, both red suits stopped.
3C=5-(3-2)-3 with at most one red suit stopped. (11-13 or 12-14 based on your opening nt range)
3D=6-4 minimum with diamonds
3H=6-4 minimum with clubs
3S=6m, GOOD SUIT, MINIMUM
4m=void, 7M minimum
4h=void other major, 7M minimum

This has a bunch of advantages. It lets you show 6M conveniently. It does not force you to bid 2nt on other hand types and it lets you show several tricky hands well( 6-4 minimums with a minor, particlarly clubs , a good suit in a minimum hand, exactly 3 clubs in a concentrated hand).



AFter 1m=2C=2D RESPONDER can bid 2nt if he wants to be declarer, and now bids 3N with the 5=3=3=2 minimum hands so all others show 6M.

1M=2c=2d=3M shows a non slammish 3 card raise so 3n by opener is now natural. Bidding 2Hfirst then 3M is slammish, so we play that 3n over that 3M bid is a mild slam try.

[mtvesuvius]

I much prefer not having to rebid 2N (or higher) on 5-4 types, which I think removes the point of 2/1 and in generally bad.

One structure that I've been playing for a while which I like is that you reverse the meanings of 2♠ and 2N. Therefore:

1M-2X
2M is exactly 5M, and no 4 card suit lower than X

1M-2X
2N is 6+M, and you can go about finding your fits etc as normal

1M-2X
3Y is natural and shows extras (Y < X)

1M-2X
2Y is natural and does not show show extras (Y > X)

1♥-2♣/2♦
2♠ does not show extras either

This has worked quite well, and allows you to rightside NT most of the time, and responder can bid a waiting 2N if they want to know more about opener's shape, otherwise they continue their original plan when they bid 2/1.

[kayin801]

Adam, I like the scheme you have in general.

Question: With 4=6 (or 4=7) in the majors how do you bid with and without extras after 1H-2m-? When you bid a second suit, does it outright deny 6+ in the first major or does it depend situationally? I would have guessed the latter; being forced to not find your spade fit till the 3 level when opener is 46xx seems non-optimal.

[mtvesuvius]

I would generally prefer to bid 2♠, then if possible, bid hearts later.

[fromageGB]

I like to say that a 12-14 opener does not bid above 2M. Nor does a 17+, but a 15-16 will. That sorts the strengths out reasonably well, and therefore 2M may be 5. Responder (if not 2 suited or 6) rebids 2NT and now opener clarifies his distribution, so 3M would be 6, but lower bids would not deny 6.

It works for us. Opener will not be declaring 3NT if 2 suited. Of course if opener is the 17+ hand he makes a further move when responder signs off.

Of course this makes the 46xx hand easy. It goes 1♥ 2♦ 2♥ 2♠ 3♠ ... if there is a spade fit.
And of course 64xx goes 1♠ 2♦ 2♥ 2NT 3♠.

[han]

the_clown, on 2011-March-09, 09:15, said:

Hi all, Me and my p have been playing 2/1 for some time and we have an agreement that 1M-2m-2M shows a 6 card suit. This means that with minimum Strenght and 5-4 we rebid 2nt. The problem is that after that the 3NT contract is often wrongsided. (Declarer has a singletone in the inbid suit). On the other hand I like that 2M shows 6cards, and we are able to find our fit on the second level. Feel free to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both methods and share your experience

showing the sixth trump is not worth the trouble, switch to what everybody else is playing.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

As you know, we dont play this style, but here are some comments from my side:

As already mentioned, the style, that a major suit rebid by opener showes a 6 card
suit, goes usually together with the style, that reverses dont show add. strength,
hence with 5-4, you have bid your 2nd suit, by passing 2NT.

This will avoid the problem you mentioned, that 3NT is quite often wrong sided.

But - If you want to have the certainty, that 2M showes a 6 card suit, than you are
putting a higher value on the shape showing aspect than on the the strength showing
aspects, so those two agreements share the same philosophy.

The downside is, that you have reached the 3 level, without locating a fit and the
process of limiting the hands having not yet started.

You can minimize some of the issues, if you play intermediate jumps shift responses to
1 level opening bids.
The consequence being, that if reponder has a strong 1 suiter, he wont have a borderline
gf, so that it should be playable to agree, that if responder rebids his suit, it sets
the suit.
If you also play, that a 2C response to a major suit is either clubs, or bal. gf with 3
card support), you should be doing ok.

I am not advocating to include the 3 card support in the 2NT response, at least not in
public - I have already done this here and got my share of public comments.

Also for slam bidding, you will have to add Last Train to your agreement set, this is also
in general a useful convention, but since you wont have lots of space left below 4M, you
need a way to make a quantitative move toward slam without bypassing 4M.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

[helene_t]

I like the 2M rebid to show six but I am not sure if it is really good advice to play that style. The thing is, most play that bypassing 2M shows extra values so it is easier to seek advice from experts here (and to make sense of expert bidding when kibbitzing or reading The Bridge World) if you play the "normal" style. And if you want to play something non-standard you might as well adopt mtvesuvius' system or some such.

That said, if you want to play a natural style in which 2M shows 6, I think you should
- not worry too much about right-siding the contract
- rebid 2♦ over a 2♣ response with (semi) balanced 12-14
- respond 2♣ rather than 2♦ with all balanced hands that don't have a good 5-card diamond suit.
- discuss things like 4m waiting, nonserious 3NT, last train. You need to sort out slam potential later if opener's reverse rebid doesn't say anything about strength.