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Enough to raise

#1 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 01:06



You're 2353 without any black-suit honours. What are the minimum red-suit honour holdings that you'd need to raise?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#2 User is offline   Tcyk 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 02:51

The second double confuses me. If partner had a big hand with s he would have bid them instead of the double. Why the second double? My guess is that the suit is weak but there are a lot of scattered values. Doubler needs honors and not much else to make game. You certainly have less than 8 HCP because you passed 1. With 2 honors, I would bid 4. I would probably forget to look at my s unless I had the ace but then my hand would be too strong for the initial pass over 1.

Oh my, there is another possible explanation. He is making a game try in s but is willing to play to s. If I don't have support, I must retreat to 4. With poor s and good s, I must bid 4. If I pass with that hand, I will never hear the end of it.
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#3 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 03:25

Unless holding a yarborough, raise. Any honor in the red suit, particularly in , is enough.
Partner has given you a chance to stop below game, because he does not know whether a fit exists on this sequence.
Partner either has 5 good in a strong distributional hand or six mediocre . With better he would have bid 3 last time.
This assumes partner to be an expert. Lesser ones often overbid with strong hands.

Rainer Herrmann
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#4 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 05:45

4H if H:Kxx
if H:xxx +D:KJxxx
if H:Qxx +D:Kxxxx
if H:Qxx +D:QJxxx
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#5 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 06:20

A red queen is enough.
Michael Askgaard
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#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 10:08

I think doubleton spade will provide an entry, I think all blank cards might be enough with 3 card support. I would raise with a red queen for sure as michael suggested, with less than that its close and I don't think I'd do the same all the time.

If I played any form of 2 thansfer to hearts in competition after partner doubles I would pass this thing with much more afraid of a missunderstanding.
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#7 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 10:57

I don't understand the auction so far. What did partner's second double mean?
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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 12:17

Double was not explicitly discussed, but I think it just shows a good hand that isn't suitable for any other action - the equivalent of doubling and then cue-bidding, except that double conserves space. I don't think that it either promises or denies four spades.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#9 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 17:32

DK or HQ for me.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#10 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2011-March-12, 18:46

View Postgnasher, on 2011-March-12, 12:17, said:

Double was not explicitly discussed, but I think it just shows a good hand that isn't suitable for any other action - the equivalent of doubling and then cue-bidding, except that double conserves space. I don't think that it either promises or denies four spades.


I'm with Frances, with no discussion there's no such auction. I'm wouldn't raise to game regardless of hand.
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#11 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-March-13, 04:12

View Postjogs, on 2011-March-12, 18:46, said:

I'm with Frances, with no discussion there's no such auction. I'm wouldn't raise to game regardless of hand.


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#12 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-March-13, 10:48

View Postgnasher, on 2011-March-12, 12:17, said:

Double was not explicitly discussed, but I think it just shows a good hand that isn't suitable for any other action - the equivalent of doubling and then cue-bidding, except that double conserves space. I don't think that it either promises or denies four spades.


OK, so partner's got some 5332 with 5 hearts and a load of HCP. A hand he thought too strong to bid 2H over 1S. He could be 2=5=2=4 except that the opponents seem to have only 8 spades.
I don't think minor diamond honours are particularly interesting. I would want something slightly more than just the king of hearts, but black suit honours could also be useful.
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#13 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-March-14, 03:29

Partner had xxx AKxxx AKQx A. How should he have bid his hand?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#14 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-March-14, 16:38

Well, if he believes the opponents then they have an 8-card spade fit and partner has a doubleton spade. That means game is playable opposite a 0-count (with 3 hearts, play in hearts, with 2 hearts opposite you have (some) play for 5D even opposite a 2=2=4=5).

As I can't double 1S on this hand (I play it as penalties) I would have bid 2C on the previous round.
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#15 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-March-14, 18:01

View PostFrancesHinden, on 2011-March-14, 16:38, said:

Well, if he believes the opponents then they have an 8-card spade fit and partner has a doubleton spade. That means game is playable opposite a 0-count (with 3 hearts, play in hearts, with 2 hearts opposite you have (some) play for 5D even opposite a 2=2=4=5).

Have the opponents shown an eight-card spade fit? Opener passed 1 in a live auction, then competed with 2 on the next round. That doesn't sound like primary support.

Responder knew he was probably facing three-card support. With a five-card suit himself, he might have bid 2 after the double of 1.

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As I can't double 1S on this hand (I play it as penalties) I would have bid 2C on the previous round.

OK, but you'd have ended up in the same situation: it would have gone pass-2-2. What would you have done now?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#16 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-March-15, 02:53

View Postgnasher, on 2011-March-14, 03:29, said:

Partner had xxx AKxxx AKQx A. How should he have bid his hand?


I think partner bid well.

Rainer Herrmann
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#17 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-March-15, 09:15

I also think partner bid well.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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