[jschafer]

What is the reasoning behind playing 2♥ as 6-4? I would have imagined that differentiating between 4/5 ♦ is less useful than 5/6♦ but more frequent so that knowing about the 5th ♦ (or lack thereof) would be more helpful overall? Maybe it just seems that way because I never get GF 6-4s

[ArcLight]

655321, on 2011-March-14, 18:05, said:

Since everyone is agreeing on the start (1♣ - 1♦; 1NT - 2♥) I thought I would mention that I like to play that this promises 4-6 in the red suits - when playing this agreement the 4-5 hands go through checkback.

This is a very good observation, one that I overlooked.
Since I don't have a regular pard I had forgotten the implications of NMF/2WCB.

>.What is the reasoning behind playing 2♥ as 6-4? I

When using NMF (New Minor Forcing) in the sequence 1m 1M 1NT, 1 of the othe rminor asks decalrer to clarify their hand. With 4 cards in a major they bid that major.
Thus 1C 1D, 1NT 2C (NMF), 2H (shows 4 H) - responder has more information and knows what to do.

The convention has a number of follow ups and implications and the partnership should be on the same page on all of them, hence its not suitable for beginners and can led to problems in pick up partnerships.


While many open with AK A, I think the north hand is too balanced and dont mind passing.
If pard opens a minor, you bid hearts, they bid spades, you have to bid 1NT, but would prefer they declare as they are mor elikely to have tenaces to protect.

[kenrexford]

You can't play "New Minor Forcing" after 1♣-P-1♦-P-1NT. You could agree to have 2♣ be artificial and forcing, but it is not a "new minor."

This is more than just semantics to me. I personally have a distaste for giving up a simple club raise in this situation just to show a sixth diamond. If Responder bids 2♥ to show hearts and longer diamonds, 3♦ is unlikely to be preempted out when it matters, so I don't see the point. I mean, sure. There is a point, but the cost of not being able to show clubs easily seems too high.

[ArcLight]

kenrexford, on 2011-March-15, 06:56, said:

You can't play "New Minor Forcing" after 1♣-P-1♦-P-1NT. You could agree to have 2♣ be artificial and forcing, but it is not a "new minor."

I lumped NMF in with 2 Way Checkback Stayman. 2WCB does allow one to show invitational or GF hands in this sequence.
I clouded the issue by using the term NMF instead of CBS or some other acronym. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

[aguahombre]

ArcLight, on 2011-March-15, 07:32, said:

I lumped NMF in with 2 Way Checkback Stayman. 2WCB does allow one to show invitational or GF hands in this sequence.
I clouded the issue by using the term NMF instead of CBS or some other acronym. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

Yikes. With 2-way, I can't rebid diamonds to play --in addition to not being able to suggest club support (with the normal minimum response hands).

[ArcLight]

aguahombre, on 2011-March-15, 09:30, said:

Yikes. With 2-way, I can't rebid diamonds to play --in addition to not being able to suggest club support (with the normal minimum response hands).

I never said you can rebid Diamonds to play.
I meant you can find out about openers major suit holding.
I must not have been clear, sorry.

Special case
1C – 1D, 1NT -? Can also use TWC. This sequence has different meanings if you use Walsh responses (responder bypasses diamonds to bid a 4 card major). Since it’s unlikely you are looking for a major, you may want to assign some different meanings to the follow up bids, such as auto splinters.


I think the original poster has a method where by they can find out about openers majors, hence his comment about bidding the major showing 6.

[wank]

aguahombre, on 2011-March-15, 09:30, said:

Yikes. With 2-way, I can't rebid diamonds to play --in addition to not being able to suggest club support (with the normal minimum response hands).

well, you can rebid 2 clubs to play in 2 diamonds as most people play

[kenrexford]

What a weird world people choose to live in.

"I have clubs."
"I have diamonds."
"I have no other suits to mention."

After that start, no one can bid clubs or diamonds naturally. Why? To make sure that we can distinguish 4M/5♦ from 4M/6♦. Of course, we can distinguish 4M/5♦ from 4M/6♦ below 3NT anyway, simply by bidding naturally. But, why do it naturally when you can make everything artificial?

Weird.