[kgr]

---

Partner opens 1♦ (At least 4c♦; you play 5542).
An then gives a support DBL.
What do you bid and what would you bid when ♠K is ♠x?
Does 2♠ promise extra's here?
EDIT: scoring is IMP's

[dicklont]

Nasty hand KGR. Who dealt this sh*t?

2♠ is not GF, in competition you need some liberty to get your suits in.
But since it effectively brings the bidding to the 3 level I chicken out right now and settle for 2♥.
At least I won't have to play 3♥ in the moysian fit, but we might miss a superior 3♠.

I would love to be convinced by the next posts that 2♠ is the percentage call, because I don't like 2♥ a bit on this suit.

BTW: I'm in matchpoints mode now.

[kgr]

dicklont, on 2011-March-06, 05:15, said:

BTW: I'm in matchpoints mode now.

It was IMP's

[Free]

I prefer to just support on a 3 card and Dbl for takeout (may be 4♠-3♥ in this case) so this would be a very easy 2♠ NF call.
However, playing pure support Doubles I think 2♠ is stronger and forcing so we're pretty much stuck with bidding 2♥. Bleh!

[mtvesuvius]

2♥, I don't see the trouble - it's IMPs!

[aguahombre]

Free, on 2011-March-07, 08:20, said:

I prefer to just support on a 3 card and Dbl for takeout (may be 4♠-3♥ in this case) so this would be a very easy 2♠ NF call.
However, playing pure support Doubles I think 2♠ is stronger and forcing so we're pretty much stuck with bidding 2♥. Bleh!

Snapdragon, as described here, might be a good idea for this auction only --even for those who normally use support doubles. Even at IMP's it might be right to be able to find a 4-4 spade fit.

[mtvesuvius]

I don't want go donating 3 or 5 IMPs every time on these hands just so I can find an unlikely spade fit. RHO didn't raise clubs, partner has to have a few diamonds, and three hearts, what are the chances we have a spade fit? Not much.

BTW I think 2♠ should be natural and forcing one round, not GF.

[fromageGB]

Partner has values, he has only 3 of my suit, I have only 2 of his, he is sitting on top of their strength. Can't I pass ?

I appreciate pass is not normally allowed on the forums, but I don't like anything else.

[mtvesuvius]

fromageGB, on 2011-March-07, 11:54, said:

Partner has values, he has only 3 of my suit, I have only 2 of his, he is sitting on top of their strength. Can't I pass ?

I appreciate pass is not normally allowed on the forums, but I don't like anything else.

You could, especially if minus 180 is one of your favorite scores.

[kgr]

---

DBL=support
Would 2♠ iso 4♥ by North show extra's?

[mtvesuvius]

Yes, 2♠ shows extras.

Over 2♥, North can bid 2♠ and all will be well.

[mike777]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-March-07, 10:44, said:

2♥, I don't see the trouble - it's IMPs!

ditto

[mike777]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-March-07, 16:46, said:

Yes, 2♠ shows extras.

Over 2♥, North can bid 2♠ and all will be well.

ditto

btw these 14-16 or so unbal hands are just plain tough at times.

[helene_t]

Aquahombre, this is not a snapdragon double situation. Snapdragon is a double by advancer after partner's overcall and a freebid in a new suit from RHO.

I suppose if this double shows spades it could be called a negative double.

[kenrexford]

First, I'd bid 2♥ given the methods. Hate it.

Second, this is a good reason for a negative double approach, instead, when Responder bids 1♥ (support OK after 1♠). Opener has a normal 2♥ raise if not counting the spade suit and not playing support doubles. So, the support double was really used here to deny a specific heart holding rather than to solve a problem. In contrast, doubling to show four spades solves the actual problem very well, while also solving the 4252 hands and many other hands.

[whereagles]

Support dbl, eh? Screw this. I have no clue what's best. pass.

Easy 2♠ if dbl were take out.

[aguahombre]

helene_t, on 2011-March-07, 17:04, said:

Aquahombre, this is not a snapdragon double situation. Snapdragon is a double by advancer after partner's overcall and a freebid in a new suit from RHO.

I suppose if this double shows spades it could be called a negative double.

I guess that is why it is better that we don't name treatments, but just explain what they show.

Whatever it is, in ACBL negative doubles are not alerted...and this one (by opener rather than by responder) probably should be alerted.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-March-07, 18:25

[MrAce]

Yes, supp DBL can cause us miss ♠ fit now and then, although i must have not encountered it enough times to worry about it. On the other hand supp DBL comes everyday and every session i play, as well as the situations where it still helps knowing pd did not use supp dbl when he could. ( i admit it also helps to opponents too, but a negative double would also )

I like it. And read a lot of top level discussions about it from here and there, if u are using it, it is better to use it all the time (excluding some shapes where your priorities and interest is in another suit) regardless of your strength.

However i have totally the opposite feelings for SUPP RDBL. The position is totally different, the dynamics are totally different when the opponent in sandwich position DBLS. But i will leave that to another debate

[Free]

Ow boy, Kenrexford thinks like me, I'm going straight to hell.

aguahombre, on 2011-March-07, 11:02, said:

Snapdragon, as described here, might be a good idea for this auction only --even for those who normally use support doubles. Even at IMP's it might be right to be able to find a 4-4 spade fit.

Please get your definitions straight, because this is not snapdragon. Snapdragon is something like (1♥)-1♠-(2♣)-Dbl showing 5♦-2♠. This is just playing negative doubles, or takeout, or whatever, it doesn't have a specific name.

[aguahombre]

Thanks, Free. You might have noticed Helene already pointed this out.