[Flameous]

---

Can you find a way to bid the GS reliably. Our opps had the auction 1♠ - 2♦ - 2NT - 6♣ AP. I consider south to have easy raise, but are there more accurate methods?

[dboxley]

Flameous, on 2010-November-30, 15:15, said:

---

Can you find a way to bid the GS reliably. Our opps had the auction 1♠ - 2♦ - 2NT - 6♣ AP. I consider south to have easy raise, but are there more accurate methods?

How about 1S P 2D P
2NT P 3C P
3H P 4C P
4H P 5NT followed by whatever steps you use to show one top honor

[l milne]

Haven't thought about this much, but this seems like a rough start:

1♠-2♦;
2♠-3♣;
3♥-4♣;
4♥-4NT;
5♥-5NT;
7♣.


2♦ is GF, 2♠ is not 2NT, 3♥ is a NT probe, 4♥ is a cue.
After that, standard 1430 with 5NT being a grand slam try without interest in Kings. South has an easy accept with a singleton in partner's side suit with lots of trumps.

I'm interested in seeing other's suggestions also.

[l milne]

I don't think North should be forcing to grand opposite a possible three small in diamonds.
To all the 2NT rebidders, how exactly do you show a weak NT?

[mfa1010]

If north can get south to show somw club support then it would be reasonable to bid 5♠ exclusion and head for the grand opposite 2 KC.

[mikeh]

I strongly dislike the 2N rebid perpetrated at the table.

My suggestion:

1♠ 2♦
2♠ 3♣
3♥ 4♣
4♥ 5♠
6♦ 7♣

2♠ = default bid when unable to bid 2n (wrong shape) or 3♣ (wrong strength)
3♥ = heart values, but too much interest in clubs to bid 3N, and can't commit beyind 3N yet
4♥ = by inference, a cue in support of clubs...I generally abhor inferential cues, but this is unmistakeble.....would take a preference to 4♦ or would raise to 5♣ or would bid a regressive 4N otherwise
5♠ = exclusion keycard....even if we play 1430, and there is a strong argument one ought not to in exclusion, we can stay at the 6 level whenever we are off two meaningful keycards

Note that on this auction, responder has no fear of catching unsuitable diamonds in dummy.

[mike777]

getting to 7 is tough.....I think I would only get to 6c.

I might never be able to show my spade void as I am afraid it is not useful.

[Fluffy]

more or less the same as mike, but I consider 4♥ to be a sure ace since it could easilly be opposite a singleton, so I'd bid GSF since I don't play exclusion.

[mikeh]

mike777, on 2010-November-30, 16:16, said:

getting to 7 is tough.....I think I would only get to 6c.

I might never be able to show my spade void as I am afraid it is not useful.

I simply don't understand that.....this is not a hand on which you are seeking to be of use to partner....it is a hand on which, after you find a club fit and inferred diamond shortness, you need just two pieces of information.....the heart A and the club K (well, you'd like to know if he has 4+ clubs, or K10x, but you are going to be able to assume that once he supports clubs, explicitly or inferentially). The purpose of exclusion is not to 'show' the spade void but, rather, to ask a specific and pertinent question: how many keycards do you hold outside of spades.

I am a big fan of trying to help partner in many constructive auctions, but every now and then comes a hand where you have to assume captaincy and ask for info rather than strain to give it. This is one such hand.

[Valardent]

natural auction, see mikeh

TS way :

1♠-2♣ 5+♠/GF relay
2♦-3♦ many hands/5+♦5+♣ 5 loosers or less
4♣-5♠ 5(6)xx4 setting ♣/5♠ EXCL BW
6♦-7♣ 2 out of 4

[mike777]

mikeh, on 2010-November-30, 16:50, said:

I simply don't understand that.....this is not a hand on which you are seeking to be of use to partner....it is a hand on which, after you find a club fit and inferred diamond shortness, you need just two pieces of information.....the heart A and the club K (well, you'd like to know if he has 4+ clubs, or K10x, but you are going to be able to assume that once he supports clubs, explicitly or inferentially). The purpose of exclusion is not to 'show' the spade void but, rather, to ask a specific and pertinent question: how many keycards do you hold outside of spades.

I am a big fan of trying to help partner in many constructive auctions, but every now and then comes a hand where you have to assume captaincy and ask for info rather than strain to give it. This is one such hand.

For me it might be tough for north too assume captaincy. I note in your style with the 2s rebid it was not(well the 4h bid is tough/good bid). Again I am just not sure how I can get north to take control so tough one for me.

In any event I think I would just get to 6c here but a good problem to think about and try and find a solution.

---
1s=2d

3c(nat, not extras for us)=could 5s be exclusion here...I dont know so I would not try it?

[rduran1216]

I believe the strength in 2/1 is showing shape, so for me 1M 2x 2M promises 6, and the raises to the 3 level in a minor don't show extras. On hands where u want to show extras, you exercise judgement, but for the vaster majority of hands where u wanna just show shape this seems like an easier system.

So for me

1S 2D
3C 4C
4H 4S
5C 5D
6C 7C

[han]

if the auction starts with a simple

1S - 2D
2S - 3C
4C

then you can't stay out of the grand.

[mikeh]

han, on 2010-December-01, 08:00, said:

if the auction starts with a simple

1S - 2D
2S - 3C
4C

then you can't stay out of the grand.

agreed...but why would anyone raise to 4♣? Can't responder hold something like Kx xxx KQxxx AQx, and be probing for the best game?

[han]

Mikeh, it wouldn't surprise me if Rexford bids 3C on a singleton, but for me this bid tends to show 5-5 shape and will never be a fragment. I'd bid 2NT with the hand you gave, and this does not promise stoppers. I realize that this may wrongside a possible 3NT, but you can't have all. I choose to keep my 3C bid honest and this is the price I pay.

Similarly I don't bid 3H with Kx AQx AKxxx xxx. I can't, for me 3H promises 4+ hearts and 6+ diamonds. Again, I bid 2NT and perhaps wrongside 3NT.

[han]

Now that I mentioned Rexford, he, as well as I, would probably start with 2C on the hand you gave.

[whereagles]

Flameous, on 2010-November-30, 15:15, said:

1. I consider south to have easy raise,

2. but are there more accurate methods?

1. You think so? Reverse North's majors then.

2. Sure. This, for starters:

1♠ 2♦
2♠ 3♣

now opener can be pessimistic and bid 3NT, after which at least the small slam should be reached, or optimistic and bid 4♣, after which responder follows up with a 5♠ (voidwood, what else?).

[Flameous]

The thing I had in mind was that I would never assume exclusion in partner's suit without specific agreement. (Similarly we don't splinter in partner's suit)
Thus bidding 6♣ denies the ability to bid exclusion in hearts -> Should be a spade void.

I can see that here 5♠ should be exclusion, but I wouldn't assume it without precise agreement about this kind of sequence.

And one thing I didn't mention (cause it isn't really important) was that opps were playing strong club so 1♠ was limited to something like 16.

[nige1]

deleted

[han]

I thought that this was an interesting thread.

Flameous, on 2010-December-09, 09:03, said:

I can see that here 5♠ should be exclusion, but I wouldn't assume it without precise agreement about this kind of sequence.

This is alien to me. What do you think partner could misunderstand 5S as?