[Cascade]

---

You don't have to agree with the opening but that is what happened at the table. Although I would be happy with comments about the choice to open and the decision of whether to open 1♦ or 1♥.

How many hearts would you bid now?

[mtvesuvius]

I'd bid 2♥ -- I would have have passed to begin with, given this start, I think that 2♥ is now an underbid, and partner certainly won't expect a hand like this, but something about bidding 3♥ without ANY keycards really seems very wrong.

EDIT: If I were to open this, I would have opened 1♥. I'd hate to lose the heart suit which seems to be the only benefit of opening after 1♦-1♠ or anything else.

This post has been edited by mtvesuvius: 2010-December-16, 19:59

[Hanoi5]

I don't think I would have opened that hand, but if I had I would have preferred to open 1♥ and if you play 2/1 and bergen-raises you'd be better positioned to make a more educated guess. Right now I'm torn between 2 and 3 hearts. What day of the week did I get this hand on?

[Cascade]

Hanoi5, on 2010-December-16, 19:54, said:

What day of the week did I get this hand on?

Tuesday - close to 1030pm

[inquiry]

This is not an opening bid hand. If you are going to open it, I can't speculate what to bid, because well, you have no adequate rebid anyway.

I would probably bid 2♦ if i opened this 1♦ and the bidding has gone like this. The reason being is that partner has a big hand, and I want to discourage him. Any number of hearts will get you too high too quickly. Rebid diamonds and then reluctantly go back to hearts. If you want to go the normal route, then rebid 2♥ -- but if you opened 1♦ the normal route is not for you anyway.

[straube]

2H. The hand is worth more but I don't have the cards to bid more.

Definitely not 2D. That would be betting against myself.

I wouldn't open the hand. My partner and I play a strong club system and our opener's start at 6 relay points. Even fudging for the 6/5, this has 4.

If I had to open, I would open 1D and rebid 2D over anything but hearts. Playing in my long suit might make up for the hand's shortcomings.

[MrAce]

I wouldn't open it at all. Bidding 2♥ now.

Opponents are silent, when we have 9+ ♥ fit. Pd is very likely to have a big hand, unless LHO had to bite his tounge with ♦ being his suit.

I wouldn't rebid 2♦ though as Inquiry suggested. It is much easier to say "sry i shdn't have opened" than hiding the fit and cause total mess in this hand. And i am not really worried about pd having a big hand, this hand after ♥ fit will produce more tricks then a normal 2♥ bid hand with a regular 12 hcp and 4432 imo.

We all know opening a very weak 2 suiter hand is vulnerable when misfit, but we got lucky and found a 9 cards or more ♥, i just can't see myself hiding it to be honest.

[ewleongusa]

The problem with bidding more than two hearts is you don't want the partnership to get too high when partner eventually bids 4NT with something like:
S KQxx H AKxx D xx C Kxx and the partnership is too high.

Eric Leong

[JLOGIC]

I think opening is pretty lol but you have to bid 2H now. The opps are silent which gives partner probably a lot of HCP, and a jump to 3H will just make it too hard for him to know that he needs 4 keycards for us to make slam.

[Fluffy]

The arguments about slowing down partner are convincing me, altho at first I though 2♥ was not gonna be my choice.

I prefer opening 1♥ to maybe be able to bid 4♥ before they find the spade fit.

[the hog]

Cascade, on 2010-December-16, 19:35, said:

---

You don't have to agree with the opening but that is what happened at the table. Although I would be happy with comments about the choice to open and the decision of whether to open 1♦ or 1♥.

How many hearts would you bid now?

Well I made an idiotic opening bid, did I not? IF I opened this hand it would clearly be with one heart, (I would prefer pass). Having totally misbid, I bid 2H now. Stupid problem, Wayne.

[rhm]

I would never open this hand with a one bid, but I can see opening this hand with a weak two in ♥ (not ♦) if I do not have a weak two-suiter in my arsenal. If opponents double 2♥ I would bid 3♦ next.
As the bidding went, anything but 2♥ seems ridiculous to me

Rainer Herrmann

[mcphee]

You elected to open 1D, (prefer passing if I do not have a 2 suited bid)you now raise H. How anyone can suggest rebidding 2D rather than offering to show 5 card support is beyond my understanding.

[Cascade]

the hog, on 2010-December-17, 04:41, said:

Well I made an idiotic opening bid, did I not? IF I opened this hand it would clearly be with one heart, (I would prefer pass). Having totally misbid, I bid 2H now. Stupid problem, Wayne.

Sorry you feel that way.

Its a real problem. My partner, not my regular partner and a relatively new player, opened this hand. She chose 1♦ her longest suit. I kind of admired the opening even if many would not have made the bid as showed considerable appreciation for the power of this distribution. Nevertheless it created a pleasant problem on the second round.

posted it here as I was primarily interested in expert opinion about how much to bid when our hand has improved when partner bids our second suit. I was also curious about the affect of silent opponents when we have uncovered a 9-card fit.

[mikeh]

The problem is not about how much our hand is worth, given that partner hit us where we live. Obviously on that basis, there is a sound argument for bidding 4♥! We'd expect to have play for 4♥ opposite a range of moderate responding hands.

The problem is how to slow partner down, given that we have made an egregious overbid/misbid by opening the hand in the first place.

Especially given the silence of the opps, we can infer that partner probably has a good hand and the last thing we want to do is to suggest that we have high card power ourselves.....we don't have anything resembling a normal 1♦ opening so the more we bid now, the more we are adding to partner's understandable misperception of our hand.

Rebidding 2♦ is one way to discourage partner, but that is simply grotesque.....partner's response was perhaps the response of our dreams when we chose to open 1♦ so pretending we hold 13 high with 6 diamonds and short hearts isn't going to help much...we bid 2♦ and then pull 3N to 4♥? And that's the solution? I think not.

So it is 2♥ and reject any game try....not because we don't want to be in game but because the odds are that the 'gametry' will turn out to have been a slam try and I don't want to do anything to lead partner to go beyond game unless he does so knowing that I am absolutely minimum. IOW, I don't think we're missing game after 2♥.

[dellache]

I bid a straightforward 2♥ now.

If partner's has say AKxx, I probably want to be in game, but that's too specific a hand : most of the time he'll have useless points in the blacks, and will make somme game try (and I'll accept).

Now I don't see why I should do extreme things (like bidding 2♦, OMG) to stop partner :
1. Opening 1♦ was certainly curious, but I got the "dream-bid" of 1♥ ;
2. I'm not ashamed of my hand now (I can make 4♥ with a few topcards by CHO) ;
3. Why should we assume that pard has all the HCP ? He could be 4423 w/ say 11HCP, the rest being 10/10 HCP, 4-4 spades and 5-4 clubs by oppos, so what ?
4. Slam is now a matter of keys. The danger when accepting a GT is that pard will finally bid BW, discover that 2+ keys are missing and stop in 5. If 3 keys are out this is awful. If 2 keys are missing : too bad, we may suffer a ♦ruff or something bad (unlikely though) but if pard has 4 KC slam will usually be cold : do we really want to stop pard with AJxx AKxx xx AJx ?
5. Are we really much worse than KJx QJxx QJxx Ax, a hand with which we would happily accept a game try ?

[Phil]

I'll bid an insufficient 1♥ and correct it to 3♥

Seriously, 2♥ and there are some excellent reasons posted already why we need to slow down partner. If pard does go a' slamming and tells me was have all of the keys, then this hand becomes great again.

Would not have opened this hand. Wayne, you might want to discuss quick tricks with your partner.

[cherdano]

Phil, on 2010-December-17, 16:36, said:

I'll bid an insufficient 1♥ and correct it to 3♥

Are you trying to be pushed into game by the opponents?

[OleBerg]

I would have opened 3♦, but that would not have been so smart here, when opponents are keeping quiet.

In my pet system I can bid 4♥, which doesn't show any strength at all, but simply some distribution and a desire to chance it.

With standard agreements I have to be content with 2♥, or else partner migth so easily take me overboard.