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AKTxx partner opens 1NT

#1 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 04:08

Amazingly those 2 hands occured in a single tournament :




In Both hands partner opens a 15-17 1NT (Teams)
(in hand 1 , pd opened after 3 passes , and we are NV.
in hand 2, pd was dealer and we are VUL against NVUL).

Would you Pass , invite, bid game? (on both hands or either one)
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#2 User is offline   inderdeed 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 04:11

I'd force to game on the first and pass on the second.
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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 04:26

I see a conspiracy.

I'd pass on the second one too but I would just invite on the first
(assuming standard responses 2 and raise 2 to game and invite opposite 2/2 - I hope he shows his spades over 2/2N)
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#4 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 04:43

Agree with Csaba
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#5 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 05:17

I would bid stayman on the first hand. If partner bids 2 then I will bid game, if partner bids 2 I will try passing, if partner bids 2 I will invite.

On the second hand I would pass.

My evaluation is that 3NT might make opposite a maximum, but will be quite iffy; this hand is not "really" worth an invitation. However, the first hand has the added upside of finding a 4-4 spade fit game (game rates to be quite good opposite 4-5 from partner) and of improving the partial into 2. Combining these extra chances compensates for the possibility of getting too high after 1N-2-2-2N (either failing in 2N, or bidding to 3N and going down).
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#6 User is offline   Flameous 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 05:29

On first one I stayman (P bid 2S with both majors), invite over 2 (NV and P in third...). Over 2 I bid 2 NF minor suit stayman and if p bids 3 I'll go to game. I'm not so sure after 2, probably pass.
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#7 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 09:40

View Postmich-b, on 2010-December-14, 04:08, said:

Amazingly those 2 hands occured in a single tournament :




In Both hands partner opens a 15-17 1NT (Teams)
(in hand 1 , pd opened after 3 passes , and we are NV.
in hand 2, pd was dealer and we are VUL against NVUL).

Would you Pass , invite, bid game? (on both hands or either one)

for the colors and scoring I would just pass. In the first hand if I was V I would venture a stayman call
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#8 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 13:26

View Postawm, on 2010-December-14, 05:17, said:

I would bid stayman on the first hand. If partner bids 2 then I will bid game, if partner bids 2 I will try passing, if partner bids 2 I will invite.


I suppose you play German Standard, where opener's Stayman response with 4-4 majors is 2NT. :P
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#9 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 16:57

I'd bid stayman on the first:
->Over 2 I'd invite
->Over 2 I'd pass
->Over 2 I'd bid 4

On the second I'd invite however possible.
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
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#10 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 17:15

I'd pass both but obviously on the first one pass will often be wrong if partner has spades. This needs a simulation.
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#11 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2010-December-14, 17:18

On the first one, I adopt the volcanic approach: 2, passing 2, raising 2 to game and bidding 2N over 2.

Passing 2 will be sub-optimal if he is 4=4 majors, since in my partnerships, we respond 2 with 4=4, but it still rates, on average, to do better than 1N on such layouts...they will have at least 9 diamonds to play against 1N.

On the 2nd hand, I just pass.
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#12 User is offline   dellache 

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Posted 2010-December-15, 02:45

Exactly the same as mikeh.
FD
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#13 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2010-December-15, 04:03

For those who are interested in what actually happened:

1st hand opener had
.
My partner staymaned and raised 2 to 4. But s were 4-1 , and no miracle in s so we were down (same result in other table).

2nd hand opener had
.
My partner passed, and we lost a game swing when other table just bid 3NT , and found KQ onside.
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-December-15, 08:36

inviting rules 8)
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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2010-December-15, 16:18

View Postmich-b, on 2010-December-15, 04:03, said:

For those who are interested in what actually happened:

1st hand opener had
.
My partner staymaned and raised 2 to 4. But s were 4-1 , and no miracle in s so we were down (same result in other table).

2nd hand opener had
.
My partner passed, and we lost a game swing when other table just bid 3NT , and found KQ onside.



Here is what i wrote in another topic about how i bid games :)

View PostMrAce, on 2010-December-14, 14:06, said:

....... I am too agressive for bidding games, and extremely conservative with slam bidding. I don't even believe in making game trial bids, it is not even scientific to me. I believe when we bid a borderline game, a good outcome depends on 3 more factors than what me and my pd has and this is at the 3rd rank of priority among all 4....



I would have bid game with both of them. I seriously do not believe in invitations with that kinda hands due to shyness. A pass to 1 NT with second hand makes more sense to me than invitation if i am gonna choose the low path. All borderline games which are played apprx with 22-25 hcp, has much more chance to make if reached with minimum info for the defender on lead and in genereal for defense. But thats my style, to me game try = You bid it and try to make it. :P If NV, i wld have passed with 2nd hand.
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