[karlis_ooo]

1♦ =WJ05

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What do you think the double should be?

[mikestar13]

Clearly penalty. We've found our fit, why would a takeout double be needed?

[mtvesuvius]

Ummmmm... indeed. Penalty.

[karlis_ooo]

My partner also thought that it is penalty.

I somewhat don't want to agree with that. Partner is on lead, meaning that if he wants to get a ♣ ruff some communication will be needed. Opponents are vulnerable and trump stack also feels unlikely. Partner is limited and if he has something along lines of ♠KQx means that his strength in his long suits is limited. I somewhat doubt opponents would bid this way with honours in our suits.

I would like to think that double should be something like 5♦4♥3♠1♣ and involves partner ir decision whether to play 5♥ or 4♠ doubled.

I had ♠x ♥JTxxx ♦Axxx ♣xxx and bid 5♥ going down 2 doubled.
Partner had some flattish 12 count with ♠Kxx and 4♠ was indeed down one...

[mfa1010]

Penalty. The hand is already limited by 2♥.

What does "WJ05" mean?

[Tomi2]

mfa1010, on 2010-November-12, 06:48, said:

Penalty. The hand is already limited by 2♥.

What does "WJ05" mean?

They seem to play polish club, that used to mean, that 1dia and then 2hea can not be on a flat hand with 12 points, since its either 44 reds and 41 in blacks or 5di 4he...

but Jassem wrote his WJ05 book and now 3442 with kxx in spades seems possible

I dont know why double here should mean "lets give them 5 imps if it goes or if we bid 5h for 800" I would expect partner to have 4441 and one of the oponents to have overbid his hand here. and I think this is the first time, I vote for "pentalty double" in this forum

your opartnetrs double most likely was a mistake that randomly would have changed 100 into 200 for you, your take out was probably a serious mistake that never improves your score (or maybe from 790 back to 500 if you dont go for 800)

[kayin801]

Penalty, we can still have 3 trump tricks on this auction. Especially since we've limited our hand TWICE (once with opening, once with 2♥) this is penalty.

[karlis_ooo]

Tomi2, on 2010-November-12, 07:19, said:

They seem to play polish club, that used to mean, that 1dia and then 2hea can not be on a flat hand with 12 points, since its either 44 reds and 41 in blacks or 5di 4he...

but Jassem wrote his WJ05 book and now 3442 with kxx in spades seems possible

I dont know why double here should mean "lets give them 5 imps if it goes or if we bid 5h for 800" I would expect partner to have 4441 and one of the oponents to have overbid his hand here. and I think this is the first time, I vote for "pentalty double" in this forum

your opartnetrs double most likely was a mistake that randomly would have changed 100 into 200 for you, your take out was probably a serious mistake that never improves your score (or maybe from 790 back to 500 if you dont go for 800)

3442 is mandatory, but 1♦ opening also shows values in ♦, not just 4 cards.

I don't know where did you get that quote, but it has nothing to do with this situation.

IMO in this situation penalty double has no merit (and i can assure, that you cannot have 3 trump tricks), so why give away 5 imps? or hope for distant -1 and +3 IMPS, while we have 10 or 11 trick in ♥.

[ggwhiz]

I like all the non-alertable options on the acbl card and this one looks like maximal.

I'm expecting a flatish max (14) with prime defence, ie AK A and a piece or two.

It's penalty with crossed fingers. I guess a 12 count with 3 defensive tricks and poor hearts can take a shot.

[Free]

It's one of the most obvious penalty Doubles you can see. Partner limited his hand with 2♥, so he can't have extra values and distribution all of a sudden to suggest a sacrifice to 5-level. He doesn't need your judgement, and he definitely doesn't want you to pull with a weak hand.

[the hog]

This is an obvious penalty double.

[P_Marlowe]

karlis_ooo, on 2010-November-08, 06:23, said:

<snip>
Partner is limited and if he has something along lines of ♠KQx means that his strength in his long suits is limited. I somewhat doubt opponents would bid this way with honours in our suits.
I would like to think that double should be something like 5♦4♥3♠1♣ and involves partner ir decision whether to play 5♥ or 4♠ doubled.
I had ♠x ♥JTxxx ♦Axxx ♣xxx and bid 5♥ going down 2 doubled.
Partner had some flattish 12 count with ♠Kxx and 4♠ was indeed down one...
<snip>

#1 Why cant p have KQx in spades? Because your opponents are always sane peoble?
Why second guess p holding, if he sees it himself?
#2 You are certainly allowed to run, assuming you have a hand p can not really expect,
the hand you have does not belong to this category, you even have a sure defensive trick,
you never promised one.
#3 p was right? Brilliant, this does not make the penalty X a good bid, but it would have
worked out well, one reason for making such a bid is state of match / tournament, trying
to go for the maximal number of IMPs / MP, and under certain conditions, the bid may even
be matadory, ..., and maybe your partner did know the opponents, did know, that they like
to stretch?

With kind regards
Marlowe