Nothing exotic, just judgment

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Nothing exotic, just judgment Strong hand, imps

#1 kenberg

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Posted 2010-November-15, 09:24

Imps, a team game.

You have not played before with this partner but enough hands have been played so that you trust him to generally be on the same page as you are. Raising to 4♦ would be taken as a slam try. Bidding 3♠ and then, if he calls 3NT, pulling to 4♦ would be taken as a slam try. An immediate call of 3NT you expect will be passed. These bids, 3NT, 3♠, 4♦, are the choices, right?

Your choice?

Oh: The post says "nothing exotic". Whatever you might think of bidding 4♠ as kickback (and I don't think much of it) that call is not available to you. 4NT would be rkc, if that's what you want to do.

Ken

#2 TWO4BRIDGE

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Posted 2010-November-15, 09:36

You definitely are in slam territory ( your 14 and ostensibly partner's 17 ).
I like your 3♠ call followed by 4♦ showing that 3♠ was an advance cue for Diam., slammish.

Don Stenmark
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#3 kayin801

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Posted 2010-November-15, 09:37

4♦, hoping to hear a heart cue? The worst case scenario is when partner opts to not cue hearts with Kxx, x, KQJxxx, AKx

I could be convinced 3♠ followed by 4♦ is right if that seems to better deny a club control. I don't know if that's a stronger auction than 4♦ directly though.

I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

East4Evil ♥ sohcahtoa 4ever!!!!!1

#4 pooltuna

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Posted 2010-November-15, 10:04

kenberg, on 2010-November-15, 09:24, said:

[snip]
You have not played before with this partner but enough hands have been played so that you trust him to generally be on the same page as you are. Raising to 4♦ would be taken as a slam try. Bidding 3♠ and then, if he calls 3NT, pulling to 4♦ would be taken as a slam try. An immediate call of 3NT you expect will be passed. These bids, 3NT, 3♠, 4♦, are the choices, right?

Your choice?

Oh: The post says "nothing exotic". Whatever you might think of bidding 4♠ as kickback (and I don't think much of it) that call is not available to you. 4NT would be rkc, if that's what you want to do.

3♠ I need partner to be able to evaluate his ♠ holding for slam purposes before bidding ♦

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#5 mike777

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Posted 2010-November-15, 10:42

4d slam try now. My concern is 3s may muddy the waters as to what suit will be trumps if pard rebids something other than 3nt.

#6 TimG

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Posted 2010-November-15, 13:50

kenberg, on 2010-November-15, 09:24, said:

4NT would be rkc, if that's what you want to do.

Why wouldn't 4N be quantitative?

#7 kenberg

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Posted 2010-November-15, 16:44

Well, perhaps 4NT would be quantitative. It wasn't under consideration so I'm not sure. With partner having a strong diamond suit I don't think that slam is strictly a matter of high card points, but that might be taking "quantitative" too literally. Slam invitational I suppose. Anyway, I think partner would have taken it as rkc.

I'm open to thoughts on what's best.

Ken

#8 mikestar13

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Posted 2010-November-15, 17:31

4♦. Let's rule out the others. RKC with two open suit? I've been known to gamble on one if the lead isn't marked, but no way. 3NT with slam values? Grow a set.... 3♠ puts the focus on ♣, which you need, but you also need ♥--and there is no way for partner to know that ♥x is gold. 3♠ is my second choice.

#9 Cascade

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Posted 2010-November-15, 19:03

3♠ has a major flaw in that sometimes partner will bid 4♥ thinking that you have five hearts.

Wayne Burrows

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#10 gerry

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Posted 2010-November-15, 19:44

6♦

With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others the same may mean for some men to do as they please...with the product of other men's labor.

The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of of liberty.

-A. Lincoln

#11 andy_h

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Posted 2010-November-15, 19:52

4D is pretty clear. My three tens can be very resourceful.

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We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.

#12 TWO4BRIDGE

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Posted 2010-November-15, 21:21

TimG, on 2010-November-15, 13:50, said:

Why wouldn't 4N be quantitative?

The 4NT-RKC "pecking order" when NO suit has been agreed ( not that I would bid 4NT over 3D ):

1. The strong 2C bidder's suit.
2. The strong jump shifter's suit.
3. The jump rebidder's suit. ( 3♦-jump rebid here ).
4. The last bid suit.

#13 kenberg

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Posted 2010-November-15, 21:37

I confess I bid 3NT.

I pretty much decided I was wrong but I thought I would check back and also see what you think is right. I guess I am convinced by the 4♦ argument. It will continue, I assume, 4♥ 4♠ 5♣ 6♦. Which, perhaps, is an argument for bashing 6♦ rather than advertising the club weakness. But 4♦ is (now) my choice, I think. (I edited the mis-click in the hypothetical follow-up auction.)

I guess you would not say 6♦ is exactly a claimer, but I would place a heavy bet on it.

Ken

#14 nige1

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Posted 2010-November-16, 00:23

kenberg, on 2010-November-15, 09:24, said:

Imps, a team game. You have not played before with this partner but enough hands have been played so that you trust him to generally be on the same page as you are. Raising to 4♦ would be taken as a slam try. Bidding 3♠ and then, if he calls 3NT, pulling to 4♦ would be taken as a slam try. An immediate call of 3NT you expect will be passed. These bids, 3NT, 3♠, 4♦, are the choices, right? Your choice?
Oh: The post says "nothing exotic". Whatever you might think of bidding 4♠ as kickback (and I don't think much of it) that call is not available to you. 4NT would be rkc, if that's what you want to do.

3N = 10, 6♦ = 8, 4♦ = 7, 3♠ = 6.
I would bid 3N, too, Ken. I would also have responded 1♥ earlier, but after partner's (non-forcing) 3♦ rebid, I feel that slam-exploration would now start on the wrong footing.

Guthrie.tech

#15 P_Marlowe

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Posted 2010-November-16, 00:50

3NT is not an option, I dont want to play 3NT.
3S is not an option, for me this bid sounds like 5 hearts, spade values, even
if I bid 4D over 3NT, it will become murky.

So it is either 4D or 4NT, I would go with 4NT, but dont mind 4D.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I have seen my heart suit - 4D.

With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)

#16 TWO4BRIDGE

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Posted 2010-November-16, 06:00

kenberg, on 2010-November-15, 21:37, said:

Nice hand for Opener.
Too bad it didn't contain an extra point, say:
K Q 10 9 x x of Diam.

Then I could have used Gnasher's 2S! artificial GF "toy" with my follow-ups...
instead of the NF 3♦-jump rebid ....

#17 kenberg

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Posted 2010-November-16, 06:28

I don't know the toy, but let me give you a situation from yesterday, maybe the GG (Gnasher Gadget) applies:

I open 1♥, partner responds 1♠. I had planned a possible underbid of 3♥ over a forcing NT but with my Axx of spades I want to be in game. After a bit of thought I bid 4♥. The good news is that 4♥ makes, the bad news is that it is cold for 7♠. A gadget would have been useful

Ken

#18 TWO4BRIDGE

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Posted 2010-November-16, 06:51

The GG is used only after a 1H response... not a 1H open.

#19 TWO4BRIDGE

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Posted 2010-November-16, 09:51

kenberg, on 2010-November-16, 06:28, said:

You might look at Kaplan Inversion for 1H openers.

awn ...posted a thread: "Kaplan Inversion, What is it?" ( SAYC & 2/1 Forum) back in Sept 27, 2009.

and
raist.... posted: "Kaplan Interchange, what if Responder has 5 spades inv(itational)? " ( SAYC & 2/1 Forum) on Nov 26, 2010.

Oh, and lest I forget:
Zel(andah) has a relay system for 1H openers posted 10/28/2010 ):

http://www.bridgebas...se/page__st__20

#20 kenberg

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Posted 2010-November-16, 14:13

Thanks

I took a quick look and will look more later.

Ken

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BBO Discussion Forums: Nothing exotic, just judgment - BBO Discussion Forums

Nothing exotic, just judgment Strong hand, imps

#1 kenberg

#2 TWO4BRIDGE

#3 kayin801

#4 pooltuna

#5 mike777

#6 TimG

#7 kenberg

#8 mikestar13

#9 Cascade

#10 gerry

#11 andy_h

#12 TWO4BRIDGE

#13 kenberg

#14 nige1

#15 P_Marlowe

#16 TWO4BRIDGE

#17 kenberg

#18 TWO4BRIDGE

#19 TWO4BRIDGE

#20 kenberg

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Nothing exotic, just judgment Strong hand, imps

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