[OSH]

You are North, Dealer South, E/W vulnerable.
♠KQxx
♥KQJx
♦-
♣QJ98xx

Your partner opens 1♥ (5+, max 15HCP playing precision, but I think the question is applicable to SAYC or 2/1, too).
2♠ from West (5+, weak, can be two suited with a minor)
#1: How is your evaluation of the hand? Is this hand suitable for a 4♦ splinter?
#2: Suppose you bid 3♠ instead (gf, usually with support for partner), how a 4♦ rebid by pard change your evaluation?


------------------------------------
Now try another one:
You are South, Dealer , E/W vulnerable
♠-
♥A1098xx
♦865432
♣A

#3 How is your evaluation of the hand? Do you open?
#4 Suppose you open 1♥. The bidding procedes:
1♥-2♠*-4♦**-X
*2♠ is 5+, weak, can be two suited with a minor.
**4♦ is splinter, 4+ ♥, 11/12+ HCP
How this bidding change your evaluation? What is your bid now?

P.S.: Yes, I know that it seems the same hand, but try not to be influenced by this fact.....

[hrothgar]

Most pairs would treat 4♦ as a fit showing jump in comp, not a splinter.

[hotShot]

OSH, on Aug 19 2004, 02:30 PM, said:

You are North, Dealer South, E/W vulnerable.
♠KQxx
♥KQJx
♦-
♣QJ98xx

Your partner opens 1♥ (5+, max 15HCP playing precision, but I think the question is applicable to SAYC or 2/1, too).
2♠ from West (5+, weak, can be two suited with a minor)
#1: How is your evaluation of the hand? Is this hand suitable for a 4♦ splinter?
#2: Suppose you bid 3♠ instead (gf, usually with support for partner), how a 4♦ rebid by pard change your evaluation?


------------------------------------
Now try another one:
You are South, Dealer , E/W vulnerable
♠-
♥A1098xx
♦865432
♣A

#3 How is your evaluation of the hand? Do you open?
#4 Suppose you open 1♥. The bidding procedes:
1♥-2♠*-4♦**-X
*2♠ is 5+, weak, can be two suited with a minor.
**4♦ is splinter, 4+ ♥, 11/12+ HCP
How this bidding change your evaluation? What is your bid now?

P.S.: Yes, I know that it seems the same hand, but try not to be influenced by this fact.....

#1 Yes it is strong enough, but a splinter is probably not the best bid.
what would 3♣ have been?

#2 For a slam your p needs a lot of aces, if the had the ace of ♦ it is useles.
If he has A of ♠, A of ♥ and AK ♣ you have may have 7,
but if he has AKQJ in ♦, J of ♠ and K of ♣ you are lucky to make 4,
So his 4♦ should cool you down.

#3 Following the rule of 20, yes i would open it, with a well kown p at one level.

#4 If P is single we lose a ♦ trick and i need to ruff 3 or 4 times to develope some
♦ tricks of my own, trump lead would make things difficult. I can lose a trick in
♥ if K is double with the opps, p values in spade are wasted.
There might be a slam. I can ask my regular p with 4SP, if he is void or single and
how many aces he has. I am quite sure 5♥ is save, so no risk there.
Guess at IMP's i'll try 6 at least.

[OSH]

hotShot, on Aug 19 2004, 04:16 PM, said:

#1 Yes it is strong enough, but a splinter is probably not the best bid.
    what would 3♣ have been?

3♣ would have been natural, forcing one round (questionable , but we are only in the transition phase towards FS in competition).

(hotShot)"I can ask my regular p with 4SP, if he is void or single and how many aces he has. "
Nice. Does your partner consider ♥K as an Ace? If so, how can you procede when you know that he has void in ♦ and one Ace (of 5)?


hrothgar suggests me another question: if 4♦ would have been FSJ, is this hand suitable for a 4♣ FSJ? I don't think so, without A and K (maybe I'm wrong!). So playing FSJ, what do you bid?


Thanks!

[Free]

#1 & #2: call the TD, you have 14 cards and forgot to count them before looking at them. You'll get 40%...

#3: Yes I open, 1♥

#4: 6♥, easy decision imo

[hotShot]

OSH, on Aug 19 2004, 03:39 PM, said:

....

(hotShot)"I can ask my regular p with 4SP, if he is void or single and how many aces he has. "
Nice. Does your partner consider ♥K as an Ace? If so, how can you procede when you know that he has void in ♦ and one Ace (of 5)?
....

ok it would work like this

4♦ - 4♠
4NT* - 5♣
5♥**

* void
** 1 of 5(actually only 4 since ♦ is void)
Now i don't loose a trick in ♠, because i have none so i don't care if p has ♥K or ♠A.

With 10 trumps on our side there is a good change to catch the king if that card is not in p hand. But i can drop my ♦ on spade then.

[TimG]

OSH, on Aug 19 2004, 09:30 AM, said:

You are North, Dealer South, E/W vulnerable.
♠KQxx
♥KQJx
♦-
♣QJ98xx

#1: How is your evaluation of the hand? Is this hand suitable for a 4♦ splinter?
#2: Suppose you bid 3♠ instead (gf, usually with support for partner), how a 4♦ rebid by pard change your evaluation?

If I really have six clubs, I want to be able to emphasize clubs: I bid 3C. I don't like the clubs for a fit showing jump, I like partner to think Kx is gold in my suit, here we'd still have a sure loser. It would be nice to be able to bid clubs and then follow with 5♦ Exclusionary Keycard over any rebid by opener, but I doubt we'll be on solid ground about the agreed upon trump suit over anything but a club raise.

Quote

------------------------------------
Now try another one:
You are South, Dealer , E/W vulnerable
♠-
♥A1098xx
♦865432
♣A

#3 How is your evaluation of the hand? Do you open?

This is an easy opener.

Quote

#4 Suppose you open 1♥. The bidding procedes:
1♥-2♠*-4♦**-X
*2♠ is 5+, weak, can be two suited with a minor.
**4♦ is splinter, 4+ ♥, 11/12+ HCP
How this bidding change your evaluation? What is your bid now?

I bid 5♣ just in case we can find our way to a grand. I pick 5♣ instead of 4♠ because it will force opener to fess up to a diamond void rather than be tempted to show the ♣K. Over 5♦, I can bid 5♠ and responder will focus on trumps and clubs to bid the grand. With responder's actual hand, the clubs aren't good enough to accept the invitation and we end in 6♥. If responder had: ♠Qxxx ♥KQJx ♦ - ♣KQJxx, he'd have an easy 7♥ call at this point.

Considering how easy this auction was, maybe the 4♦ splinter was a good idea, after all.

Tim

[pclayton]

OSH, on Aug 19 2004, 06:30 AM, said:

You are North, Dealer South, E/W vulnerable.
♠KQxx
♥KQJx
♦-
♣QJ98xx

Your partner opens 1♥ (5+, max 15HCP playing precision, but I think the question is applicable to SAYC or 2/1, too).
2♠ from West (5+, weak, can be two suited with a minor)
#1: How is your evaluation of the hand? Is this hand suitable for a 4♦ splinter?
#2: Suppose you bid 3♠ instead (gf, usually with support for partner), how a 4♦ rebid by pard change your evaluation?


------------------------------------
Now try another one:
You are South, Dealer , E/W vulnerable
♠-
♥A1098xx
♦865432
♣A

#3 How is your evaluation of the hand? Do you open?
#4 Suppose you open 1♥. The bidding procedes:
1♥-2♠*-4♦**-X
*2♠ is 5+, weak, can be two suited with a minor.
**4♦ is splinter, 4+ ♥, 11/12+ HCP
How this bidding change your evaluation? What is your bid now?

P.S.: Yes, I know that it seems the same hand, but try not to be influenced by this fact.....

For argument's sake, lets say you are 4405.

1. Like a lot of others here, 4♦ as a splinter is out, since its defined as fit showing.

My clubs aren't quite good enough for a 4♣ FSJ in my partnerships, so thats out too. This leaves 3♠, which is OK I guess, but doesn't really say much. I think 3♣ is a better call. When I support hearts at the 5 level, pard will have a somewhat reasonable picture of my hand. Not easy.

2. If I start with 3♠, a 4♦ call is a BIG turnoff. Suddenly my void is hitting a control.

3. Yes I open, probably 4♥ if NV. I know Mike will agree with me here.

4. Now I drive toward slam. I like a 5♣ cue bid. Presumably pard rebids the diamond void. 7 is now possible, but its a big underdog with a trump lead.

Good problem.

[Fluffy]

Free, on Aug 19 2004, 04:27 PM, said:

#1 & #2: call the TD, you have 14 cards and forgot to count them before looking at them. You'll get 40%...

#3: Yes I open, 1♥

#4: 6♥, easy decision imo

Agree with all your apreciations except last, with many low ♦ the technically correct bid is 5♦, ,althou it doesn´t really like as a technicall hand.

I wonder why people keep on posting about 14 card hands, What about a 7-0-6-4, would you treat it as a 1-suiter, 2-suiter or 3-suiter?

[hrothgar]

TimG, on Aug 19 2004, 08:18 PM, said:

OSH, on Aug 19 2004, 09:30 AM, said:

You are North, Dealer South, E/W vulnerable.
♠KQxx
♥KQJx
♦-
♣QJ98xx

#1: How is your evaluation of the hand? Is this hand suitable for a 4♦ splinter?
#2: Suppose you bid 3♠ instead (gf, usually with support for partner), how a 4♦ rebid by pard change your evaluation?

If I really have six clubs, I want to be able to emphasize clubs: I bid 3C. I don't like the clubs for a fit showing jump, I like partner to think Kx is gold in my suit, here we'd still have a sure loser. It would be nice to be able to bid clubs and then follow with 5♦ Exclusionary Keycard over any rebid by opener, but I doubt we'll be on solid ground about the agreed upon trump suit over anything but a club raise.

Quote

------------------------------------
Now try another one:
You are South, Dealer , E/W vulnerable
♠-
♥A1098xx
♦865432
♣A

#3 How is your evaluation of the hand? Do you open?

This is an easy opener.

Quote

#4 Suppose you open 1♥. The bidding procedes:
1♥-2♠*-4♦**-X
*2♠ is 5+, weak, can be two suited with a minor.
**4♦ is splinter, 4+ ♥, 11/12+ HCP
How this bidding change your evaluation? What is your bid now?

I bid 5♣ just in case we can find our way to a grand. I pick 5♣ instead of 4♠ because it will force opener to fess up to a diamond void rather than be tempted to show the ♣K. Over 5♦, I can bid 5♠ and responder will focus on trumps and clubs to bid the grand. With responder's actual hand, the clubs aren't good enough to accept the invitation and we end in 6♥. If responder had: ♠Qxxx ♥KQJx ♦ - ♣KQJxx, he'd have an easy 7♥ call at this point.

Considering how easy this auction was, maybe the 4♦ splinter was a good idea, after all.

Tim

Agree with Tim's posting

In particular, I don't think that the hand is suitable for a fit jump in clubs

[luke warm]

guess i'll go back and check, but i'm not sure 3C is forcing in this sequence... (going by lawrence and bergen books, but i could be wrong.. if i am i'll come say so)... even if not forcing, not many will pass it tho...

i guess i'm in the minority, i'm bidding 3S... how else to find out whether or not diamonds are bad for us? if p bids 4C, i bid 4D, but he might view this as last train... i think i'm looking for slam here

on other, yes i open 1H

[OSH]

Fluffy, on Aug 19 2004, 09:44 PM, said:

I wonder why people keep on posting about 14 card hands, What about a 7-0-6-4,  would you treat it as a 1-suiter, 2-suiter or 3-suiter?

I'm sorry.
Actually, it was my partner's hand, so it is her fault, not mine!
I remember I had 4 trumps in dummy, 4 spades ruffed, so North hand is:
♠KQxx
♥KQJx
♦-
♣QJ98x