[1eyedjack]

http://online.bridgebase.com/cgi-bin/history.pl?...92165679-884688

I didn't like raising only to 2♥, and would not have done if it was IMPs. It was a pickup partnership with no prior discussion, and I decided that 2♥ was the lesser lie than 3♥, resolved to accept any game try (which did not materialise), and the possibility of bidding again after interference was an added attraction (well done opps).

Is this one of those hands well suited to Bergen's 3♣ raise, showing a raise to 2.5 Hearts with 4 card support? If so, should opener then bid game with ♣xx instead of ♣Qx? The ♣Q is absolutely worthless on this hand and yet 4♥ is still one to be in.

Do you think that opener is worth another try after the raise to 2♥?

[inquiry]

Scoring: IMP

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Missing this 22 hcp game with a wasted queen of clubs is hardly a horrible mistake. Some games are just missed.

Now for ZAR point people.. EAST is worth 30, and in support, West is worth 22... coming to 52.. so ZAR says game should be reached.. of course getting from 2H to 4H is no easy feat...

[1eyedjack]

Simple losing trick count should get you there, perhaps.
North has a 6 loser hand (and a good one at that, counting ♣Qx as 2 losers when the Q MIGHT turn out to be of use (OK it doesn't here)).
South has an 8 loser hand provided that you only count 2 losers for ♥Jxxx, not an unreasonable evaluation opposite a known 5 card suit, and you don't get many better 1-loser suits than ♦AKxx.

[inquiry]

Well playing old romex graded limited raises, this would be bid...

1H - 2H (2H = 2.5 cover cards.. AK = 2, doubleong = 1/2)
2S - 4H (2S looking to convert half a cover card in spades to fulll)
Pass

Misho would be so glad... as he likes this style.

Ben

[luke warm]

tough getting to 4H, even playing the theoretically best bid of 2D (flannery)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

[paulhar]

Switch either player's black suits and you wouldn't want to be in game off four inescapable losers! And yet everything would still apply, the ZAR points, the losing trick count (BTW, I still think jack fourth is three losers, but AKxx is only a half a loser according to Ruben's Modified Losing Trick Count so you're still half a trick shy), and all else discussed here. You would need one heck of a system to tell the difference.

Heck, I think I would still miss game after 1H - 3D (7-9 with four hearts). Note that if responder has the ♠QJ and the ♥A, all wonderful cards, you have no play whatsoever for 4H. You need it all - two cover cards for the minors, the doubleton spade, and great trumps to avoid the overruff. Did people really bid this game?

[Cascade]

Scoring: IMP

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Of course you had it easy since West (North orginally before the rotation I think) did not open his 12 count.

[inquiry]

Cascade, on Aug 11 2004, 04:26 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

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Of course you had it easy since West (North orginally before the rotation I think) did not open his 12 count.

Actually, a check of the hand record shows that the people who bid game (all of them) faced an opening bid by the hand iwth 12 hcp. True some who didn't also faced an opening bid, but those witout an opening bid didn;t go to game.. so maybe you had it hard becuase they didn't open.

[Cascade]

They all faced a tame opening of 1♣.

A pre-emptive weak NT may have made it more difficult.

[paulhar]

inquiry, on Aug 11 2004, 04:09 PM, said:

True some who didn't also faced an opening bid, but those witout an opening bid didn;t go to game.. so maybe you had it hard becuase they didn't open.

I just looked at these auctions. It appears that most pairs that reached 4H had a player that was either confused about what partner showed, or was simply misbidding. This is more likely when the opponents are in your auction.

[Trpltrbl]

p-p-1♣-1♥
X-3♣, and this is where it get's good. This is a bergen raise showing 4 trump and 7-9 HCP, and denies a singleton or void, since I would bid 2 NT with shortness somewhere and 4+ trump. And pd can bid 3♦ with game interest, or X if they interfere.

Mike

[Trpltrbl]

luke warm, on Aug 11 2004, 02:56 PM, said:

tough getting to 4H, even playing the theoretically best bid of 2D (flannery)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Every convention has some perks, and very maybe this might be one for Flannery.
Makes my stomach turn....

Mike

[Free]

If you play bergen, it's quite easy imo:

1♥ - 3♣
3♦ - 4♥

3♣ = 6-9 HCP with 4+ ♥ support
3♦ = invitational

after the 3♣ answer, North has a very nice hand imo... After the invitation, south also has a very nice hand... Tadaa!!!

[Antoine Fourrière]

I think 1♥ 3mixed 4♥ is the "right" sequence, but only if you open minimum 5332s with - argh - 1N or with something else - such as a slightly modified Polish Club. Otherwise there are too much chances of going down in 3♥, say opposite a mundane hand such as
QJx AQxxx JTx KJx.
But a rebid by opener after 1♥ 2♥ seems wrong, because opener is not a favorite to get that ninth trump, although KQT isn't so bad in front of three trumps.
The weak notrump isn't all that good: it seems easier to reach 4♥ after a Landy 2♣.
As for the ♣Q, it turns a supernatural contract into one which is simply difficult to reach.

[1eyedjack]

paulhar, on Aug 11 2004, 03:11 PM, said:

BTW, I still think jack fourth is three losers, but AKxx is only a half a loser according to Ruben's Modified Losing Trick Count so you're still half a trick shy

Perhaps Jack fourth is not as good as "2 losers", but it has to be better than "3 losers". If partner has no honours at all then there remains a 40% chance of a 2-2 break limiting your combined losers to 2. So perhaps a fair approximation to the true value is 2.5 losers. Add that to your half a loser for AKxx and you are back on track.

[gabika73]

In our partnership, no Bergen from a passed hand. We use Drury, or just raise to 2 with a balanced hand.

After Drury, of course, game is reached.

After a normal raise to 2, relay asks for shortness. Upon hearing the doubleton spades (2nt), game can be reached (either via 3m, or straigth).

[luke warm]

i don't understand this post... i play drury in this situation also, but to me it isn't a drury hand... i see nothing wrong with jack's 2H bid... it denies limit+, and i'm sure he'd bid 3H if he had to... it makes this time, that's all