[jillybean]

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[inquiry]

You didn't mention the type of game (matchpoints or imps) or the vulnerabilty.

I might excuse 2♥ at matchpoints (I wouldn't but state of game could change my mind), but not imps.

So North takes a lot of blame. Question is, would 3♥ be acceptable on south hand? I think I might try 2NT, which implies some hearts, so if we belong in hearts, north can put us both there. However, I am not going to be too critical of 3♥ because 2♥ was so bad (imho). Without 2♥ bid, south could not make a 3♥ bid.

[jillybean]

Sorry, I was having trouble with the hand diagram! Both vulnerable, MP's

[mtvesuvius]

Both. I think that bidding 2♥ on the North hand is highly aggressive, but I might consider it at MP. The South hand has a clear 2N call over 2♥, raising on two small is not good. With Hx and a similar hand, raising would be very reasonable... Two small isn't enough though.

I give North 30%, and South 70%

[mike777]

too light for 2h...so wrong


3h was really bad.....30n-70s sounds fair.

note it is always the second error that kills the bd

[TylerE]

I'm gonna say 30 N / 70 S (Voted for S because of the differential).

Freely raising on a doubleton when you have a better descriptive bid (2N) is...well, LOL.

EDIT: Although I know no one will believe me, I only read the initial post before replying.

[Cascade]

I know some who overcall on hands like the north one but its not my style.

South has better options than raising. A raise should normally guarantee a fit. Only when there is no other good option should one consider raising hoping that partner will have extra length.

Both are fully responsible in that either of them could have chosen a more middle of the road action and avoided this problem.

[the hog]

Cascade, on 2010-October-28, 21:54, said:

I know some who overcall on hands like the north one but its not my style.

South has better options than raising. A raise should normally guarantee a fit. Only when there is no other good option should one consider raising hoping that partner will have extra length.

Both are fully responsible in that either of them could have chosen a more middle of the road action and avoided this problem.

I really don't mind 2H that much. It is aggressive, but is nowhere near as bad as some are making out. South should bid 2NT.

[gwnn]

50-50. The overcall is really too much and the raise is also bad - two card raises are OK but only as a last resort, here S has a great 2NT bid available.

[Cyberyeti]

I voted N because that's the bid that guaranteed -200. Whatever happens next, 3♥ on AK♠, spade ruff, club to A, 4th spade ruffed higher than dummy can and a diamond to come or 2N on a club lead unless hearts are 3-3 onside are booked for at least -200, S is never going to pass 2♥.

I should add the overcall is a really bad bid with what looks like a working 8 count, particularly vulnerable at pairs.

[jillybean]

This is turned into an interesting topic. I was north here and although my overcall is weak I had passed this off as a bad bid by my partner. My overcall is what I call a “BBO bid”, I doubt that I would make it at the club. It’s too easy for me to get into bad habits online and a sign I need to patch up my BBO game.

[bucky]

jillybean, on 2010-October-29, 08:51, said:

This is turned into an interesting topic. I was north here and although my overcall is weak I had passed this off as a bad bid by my partner. My overcall is what I call a “BBO bid”, I doubt that I would make it at the club. It’s too easy for me to get into bad habits online and a sign I need to patch up my BBO game.

Your partner's bad bid may actually do you a favor then.

[Gerben42]

Both bids are terrible, can I give more than 100% of blame? I give 100% for overcalling on a hand that is not worth an overcall, and 100% for raising without a fit.

I mean give North ♣A instead of the Q and we'll talk about it. And South should ask himself what's wrong with bidding 2NT. Okay, opposite this partner hand nothing helps, but that's not his fault.

[bucky]

Well, I agree both bids are bad, but the degree is not quite the same. Imagine that you show me the North hand and ask me: guess which bad bid was made with this hand? I would have guessed 2♥. At least it would be a common error. Now show me the South hand and ask the same question. I wouldn't have guessed 3♥, it is totally off the radar.

[hotShot]

The only problem I have with the 2♥ bid, is that the hand contains 4 cards in openers suit.
This indicates that opps might not have a fit, not that we are worried about them, but this often means that we don't have a fit either.
North should reconsider the hand evaluation.

Obviously the NS partnership has a lack of agreements, if overcalls can look like that (which I don't consider a problem), than strong hands enter the bidding with dbl. So if this was agreed, than South has no reason to bid. East has already passed and it's unlikely that West will overbid 2♥ on his own.

Even if South expects North hand to be stronger, I don't understand 3♥, because there is no fit.

North bidding is not good, but South bidding is strange. So I put (much) more blame on South.

[Zelandakh]

hotShot, on 2010-October-29, 17:03, said:

North bidding is not good, but South bidding is strange. So I put (much) more blame on South.

Or to put it another way - North displayed poor judgement; South showed a complete lack of sense or understanding of the game.