[1eyedjack]

helene_t, on Oct 9 2010, 05:47 PM, said:

Yeah, without the intervention the rebid would have bid 1NT. Now I would personally prefer to rebid to be 1NT with the intervention as well, hence not promising a stop. Then the cuebid would be GF. But I wouldn't be sure if playing with a random advanced Acol-player.

Give him enough points for a 2N rebid in an uncontested auction (which in Acol is still non-forcing, although some have tweaked that style in tournament circles), would you still be happy to rebid 2N here in a contested auction without a guard? Not saying it's wrong. I also would be happy to rebid 1N without a guard, just not so sure about 2N.

[Zelandakh]

The_Hog, on Oct 10 2010, 01:51 AM, said:

The op said Acol, so 1C can of course be a three carder in a 4333 shape, as that is generally played by tournament players these days. I quite like the fit showing jump.

Acol means different things to different people. The syle you suggest is Swiss Acol and is indeed played at a high level. But so is Acol with 5 card majors (both better minor and short club) and even the traditional Acol with 4 card majors and 4 card minors. In fact the term Acol is practically meaningless when it comes to opening bids and more relevant to the general style - limit bids and approach forcing...and even that is adjusted and still (probably wrongly) called Acol by the proponents.

[helene_t]

1eyedjack, on Oct 10 2010, 08:24 AM, said:

helene_t, on Oct 9 2010, 05:47 PM, said:

Yeah, without the intervention the rebid would have bid 1NT. Now I would personally prefer to rebid to be 1NT with the intervention as well, hence not promising a stop. Then the cuebid would be GF. But I wouldn't be sure if playing with a random advanced Acol-player.

Give him enough points for a 2N rebid in an uncontested auction (which in Acol is still non-forcing, although some have tweaked that style in tournament circles), would you still be happy to rebid 2N here in a contested auction without a guard? Not saying it's wrong. I also would be happy to rebid 1N without a guard, just not so sure about 2N.

Maybe I misunderstand but if the lowest nt rebid available is 2NT then someone must have made a 2-level bid. If it is p then I am ok with game forcing with my 16-count. If it is RHO then double is available for balanced hands without a guard.

[Zelandakh]

helene_t, on Oct 11 2010, 08:40 AM, said:

Maybe I misunderstand but if the lowest nt rebid available is 2NT then someone must have made a 2-level bid. If it is p then I am ok with game forcing with my 16-count. If it is RHO then double is available for balanced hands without a guard.

Unfortunately, after 1C - (1H) - 1S - p we are not allowed to double our partner's 1S bid. Jack was (I believe) referring to a jump rebid of 2NT in response to the assertion that the cue bid might be game-forcing. Most Acolites will play that if 2NT is not GF then 2H (cue) is also not GF.

[helene_t]

OK but if 1NT rebid is 15-17 then 2NT is 18+ so it could be GF. Or at least, if we substitute the cue bid for 2NT, it is.

Yeah I know most club players play the 1NT rebid as 15-16 but this is a good opportunity to get out of that habit and play it as 15-17 so 2NT becomes 18-19 and you don't need the 3NT rebid.

[Cyberyeti]

helene_t, on Oct 12 2010, 05:15 AM, said:

OK but if 1NT rebid is 15-17 then 2NT is 18+ so it could be GF. Or at least, if we substitute the cue bid for 2NT, it is.

Yeah I know most club players play the 1NT rebid as 15-16 but this is a good opportunity to get out of that habit and play it as 15-17 so 2NT becomes 18-19 and you don't need the 3NT rebid.

Or you can play the 1N rebid as we do, wide range with no gap to your 2N opener meaning this is an easy 1N rebid, and you can use 2N/3N as other things (we use 2N as artificial unbalanced GF and 3N as a 4441 with support).

[1eyedjack]

Cyberyeti, on Oct 12 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

Or you can play the 1N rebid as we do, wide range with no gap to your 2N opener meaning this is an easy 1N rebid

An obvious downside to this is the same obvious downside to any wide range 1N bid: Partner will have hands in which game makes opposite a maximum but anything higher than 1N fails opposite a minimum. We all live with that to some extent, but clearly the frequency of the quandary will increase with the width of the range.

[Cyberyeti]

1eyedjack, on Oct 12 2010, 08:33 AM, said:

Cyberyeti, on Oct 12 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

Or you can play the 1N rebid as we do, wide range with no gap to your 2N opener meaning this is an easy 1N rebid

An obvious downside to this is the same obvious downside to any wide range 1N bid: Partner will have hands in which game makes opposite a maximum but anything higher than 1N fails opposite a minimum. We all live with that to some extent, but clearly the frequency of the quandary will increase with the width of the range.

Agreed, but in this case it's balanced by the fact that you sometimes bid 1x-1y-1N-P where the rest of the room bids 1x-1y-2N. It also for exactly this reason leaves you slightly freer to shade your responses.

More often, you play in 2M in a 4-3 fit rather than 1N, which is on average very little different in score.

[1eyedjack]

helene_t, on Oct 12 2010, 11:15 AM, said:

OK but if 1NT rebid is 15-17 then 2NT is 18+ so it could be GF. Or at least, if we substitute the cue bid for 2NT, it is.

Yeah I know most club players play the 1NT rebid as 15-16 but this is a good opportunity to get out of that habit and play it as 15-17 so 2NT becomes 18-19 and you don't need the 3NT rebid.

In an uncontested auction I normally play 1N rebid as 15-17, and 2N rebid as 18-20 and GF. But I do get into some pretty hairy 3N contracts as a result, when responder feels obliged to dredge up a response on a 5 count because we have no strong openers available apart from 2C.

That is a price that we are content to pay on the whole due to the other plus sides. But I do wonder whether you should not be prepared to put the brakes on when the contested auction reveals a weakness in a suit and in all likelihood you have no great major suit fit.

I know that some players get around this partly by reducing the range of the 2N opener to about 19-20 (and then a 15-18 1N rebid becomes more attractive). Well, that has other problems which personally I am not prepared to embrace.

[keylime]

I like the 4♣ bid showing both suits here. Once a cuebid of 4♥ has been tabled, I would have bid 5NT (pick a slam) myself.