[bearmum]

flytoox, on Aug 14 2004, 03:22 AM, said:

PLAY 2/1, WHAT DO U OPEN WITH?

S: xxx
H: AKXX
D: XX
C: AKJX

1NT

[pclayton]

flytoox, on Aug 13 2004, 06:22 AM, said:

PLAY 2/1, WHAT DO U OPEN WITH?

S: xxx
H: AKXX
D: XX
C: AKJX

Matt Granovetter on his Bridge Today website had almost the identical hand on his web site about 3 months ago, except the hearts and spades were switched.

In spite of playing a 15-17 NT, he recommended a 1♣ opening and a 1♠ rebid.

Playing 2/1, where a 1♠ rebid over 1♦ shows an unbalanced hand, its difficult to bid the hand this way, so a 1N opening is more or less forced.

Playing SAYC, or any system where you bid 4 card suits up the line, I think you can get away with a 1♣ opening, and I think its a sensible way to bid the hand. The example on Gran's website showed the hands playing a nice 4-4 ♣ partial, where 1N was doomed.

[TimG]

Nobody has mentioned the obvious:

1♥

What's the problem?

[Free]

TimG, on Aug 19 2004, 07:12 PM, said:

Nobody has mentioned the obvious:

1♥

What's the problem?

The obvious is not lying about your shape and strength imo. With opening 1♥ you say you have 5+ ♥s while you have only 4, and you even open your highest 4-card from 2 fourcards. Obvious? I think not...

[Gerben47]

I must be very stupid but I will open 1NT on this hand playing 14 - 16 or 15 - 17. Anything else is a distortion and you will never be able to show this hand, that's the way the system works.

[iscbrooks]

While I don't think all suits must be stopped for a 1NT opening, I generally draw the line at one unstopped suit. With two unstopped, it becomes extremely likely that defenders will run a suit. Add that 15 HCP is minimal for a 1NT opening (many even play 16-18), and I open 1C.

[Free]

iscbrooks, on Aug 21 2004, 11:24 PM, said:

~snip~ 15 HCP is minimal for a 1NT opening (many even play 16-18), and I open 1C.

I don't know where you come from, but I've never played against someone playing 16-18. 9-11, 10-12, 10-13, 11-14, 12-14, 13-15, 14-16, 15-16 and 15-17 are the only ranges I've come up against, and most ranges I've played as well, but NEVER a 16-18... That's old school, and poor bridge imo.

[TimG]

Free, on Aug 21 2004, 05:57 PM, said:

iscbrooks, on Aug 21 2004, 11:24 PM, said:

~snip~ 15 HCP is minimal for a 1NT opening (many even play 16-18), and I open 1C.

I don't know where you come from, but I've never played against someone playing 16-18. 9-11, 10-12, 10-13, 11-14, 12-14, 13-15, 14-16, 15-16 and 15-17 are the only ranges I've come up against, and most ranges I've played as well, but NEVER a 16-18... That's old school, and poor bridge imo.

I've played 16-18, 18-20, 10-18, 10-12 or 14-16, and 10-12 or 16-18.

[jtfanclub]

Free, on Aug 21 2004, 05:57 PM, said:

I don't know where you come from, but I've never played against someone playing 16-18.

Wow, you're young.

16-18 was the standard not all that long ago. It still is in rubber bridge, where risking it all for the game bonus isn't as good an idea. Since the experts, whoever they are, have decided that 24 hcp is all that's needed for game instead of 25, all the openings for duplicate bridge were lowered by 1 so that the responses didn't have to change. After all, when was the last time a SA duplicate player passed a hand with a 5 card major and 12 useful points?

Besides, I don't buy that 16-18 is worse than 15-17. If the point is to open 1NT as frequently as possible, use 9-11. If it's to take out those hands difficult to bid when you open one of a suit, 16-18 works at least as well as 15-17, because you're a lot safer with a game force with 19 than you are with 18 (at least you are with my partners, who will repsond to 1 of a minor with 6 hcp).

As far as I know, the reason we use 15-17 in Standard styles is a holdover from the days of strong 2s showing 19+ along with the one point cheapening in duplicate. Outside of ACOL, where it makes sense, it's not particularly good bridge.

[1eyedjack]

iscbrooks, on Aug 21 2004, 05:24 PM, said:

While I don't think all suits must be stopped for a 1NT opening, I generally draw the line at one unstopped suit. With two unstopped, it becomes extremely likely that defenders will run a suit. Add that 15 HCP is minimal for a 1NT opening (many even play 16-18), and I open 1C.

Is that just gut feel or have you run some computer sims? I have not done any computer sims but my gut feel is that this fear is groundless. Yes it can happen, and you can get a bad result as a result, but it is a numbers game and the alternatives are less palatable. I am not sure how likely you mean by "extremely likely" but I think it more likely that partner's length is opposite your shortage, and partner's values are opposite your weakness.

If partner has no values then by definition they must have running suits where yours are unguarded (unless partner has considerable length in those suits). However in that event you are no better off by having a guard in their suit. They will knock it out at trick 1, and they are certain to get in to cash the long cards before you establish your 7 tricks. The dangers are greater if responder has some values and you have gone to 3NT without identifying the weakness, but you will presumably have by then investigated a major suit fit or, failing that, extreme shortage, and if you have game values in total, no major suit fit and responder has no shortage then your best chance of making game is by being in 3NT and hoping that they don't find the killing lead. There has to be a chance of this succeeding, because if you have not exposed the weakness to your partner then neither have you exposed it to your opponents, and the one on lead may not have the length.

If they have a running suit that breaks evenly then they cannot cash more than 4 or 5 of them, on which you discard the losers that you expected to lose or you would have been higher than 1NT.

If they have a running suit that breaks unevenly then there is a good chance of their bidding it and rescuing you from 1NT. The person on opening lead having a solid suit may be an exception.

If they have a running suit and they do not bid it there is a good chance that they can make a partscore in that suit, and defeating your 1NT may be a poorer score. Even a strong 1NT opener has some preemptive effect.

There is a considerable population who find that it pays in the long run to play a mini 1NT (10-12/13 or even 9-11/12), at least at certain positions/vul/scoring, and even more who play 11/12-14. These players have no qualms about opening 1NT with two unguarded suits (else they would hardly ever open 1NT).

I doubt that this is an exhaustive list of examples of why it need not be a disaster to have an exposed suit or two when opening 1NT.

[skorchev]

I would open 1 NT and I think 'flytoox' that the lead isn't a reason to change your openings because next time the AKx will be in the other hand, i think that the most important in this situation is how you will rebid if you open 1♣ and you partner bid something like 1♠ or how you will raise him if he bid 1♥?! So open 1 NT

Stefan