[Chris3875]

Law 45C2( says that Declarer must play a card from his hand if it is "maintained in such a position as to indicate that it has been played". If Declarer detaches a card from his hand and holds it, vertical and stationary for a few seconds, does that make it "played"?

We have a player who, as Declarer, will detach a card from hand and stand it vertically on the table, holding it by a finger resting on the top of the card, before slowly letting it drop face up onto the table - when does that card become "played"?

And, on the subject of cards being detached from hand, I can see that a player who detaches a card, replaces it, detaches another, replaces it and finally plays a third card COULD be giving UI to partner - on the other hand they might just be totally confused. I think in most cases at our Club, the partner of such a player would look quite puzzled if you told them to "carefully avoid taking any advantage from that UI" and would have no idea what information they may have received.

[Chris3875]

Darn I don't know how I managed to get that smiley face in OP but I'm sure you know the law I meant.

[aguahombre]

Chris3875, on Sep 25 2010, 05:22 AM, said:

Darn    I don't know how I managed to get that smiley face in OP    but I'm sure you know the law I meant. 

FYI you gotta disable emoticons when you try "paren" then "b", etc.

For the real question, I will send a certain player the answers (

[Phil]

I was reading the 45C section of Duplicate Decisions yesterday. The law is pretty clear, but there's a discussion about declarer detaching a card so that his LHO can see it. If the Director judges that this is being done to get a reaction out of LHO, its a played card.

[Ant590]

One thing I noticed last fortnight in the Buffet Cup was that at least half of the players (from both sides) regularly detached a card in the manner described in the OP, especially the Norwegians.

Mind you, they almost always played the card that was removed, but I remember being surprised how common this physical 'tick' was. I'm not quite sure why such players didn't visualise the card in their head rather than detach it, perhaps it is a way of reducing brain farts if you almost get to the played card stage without playing the card itself.

[gordontd]

Chris3875, on Sep 25 2010, 12:20 PM, said:

If Declarer detaches a card from his hand and holds it, vertical and stationary for a few seconds, does that make it "played"?

Facing the other players?

Yes.

[shyams]

Isn't "touching or nearly touching" the table (in case of declarer) adequate to deem a card played?

[Oof Arted]

How about the old rule if it is held in such a position that it COULD be seen not still applicable


NB the COULD not was

[gordontd]

That applies to defenders not declarer.

[Chris3875]

No, the card was not held facing the players - simply detached from the hand and held stationary in the air for several seconds. We have had a number of new directors just returned from a course and they all said this is what they were taught - I was surprised - but they said it came under the section "maintained in such a position as to indicate that is has been played".

[blackshoe]

If the card was not facing the other players, but facing the player whose card it was, that does not seem to me to "indicate that it has been played".

I've known players to take a card and stick the back of it to their forehead, so that the rank and suit of the card are clearly visible. That's a played card, in spite of the fact that it's nowhere near the table.

[Chris3875]

uh huh that was my impression also - maybe I should take it up with the Director who ran the course - could be the whole lot of them misheard what was said.

[JoAnneM]

I think when is a card a played card, and a defender, or declarer, detaching more than one card before playing to a trick to be two different issues. The first just a matter of bad habit, and the second perhaps an attempt to deceive. Of course, we are not supposed to be watching a player taking cards from their hand, but sometimes it is right in your face.

[Chris3875]

I hate these "grey" areas - a Declarer's card is "played" it is held face up, touching or nearly touching the table - great ! I can understand and rule on that quite easily. But what does "maintained in such a position as to indicate that it has been played" actually mean. That comes down to MY interpretation surely. Our chief tournament director has written to me -

"The card is played if it meets either of two tests: ............ or, it
is maintained, kept motionless, in some exposed position that would
naturally be interpreted by a defender as intent to play."

What does "exposed position" mean ? That people can see the face ?

[MBV53]

still it was not a played card!
MBVSubrahmanyam.

[gordontd]

shyams, on Sep 25 2010, 07:21 PM, said:

Isn't "touching or nearly touching" the table (in case of declarer) adequate to deem a card played?

L45C2. Declarer must play a card from his hand if it is
(a) held face up, touching or nearly touching the table; or
(b) maintained in such a position as to indicate that it has been played.

[iviehoff]

Chris3875, on Sep 25 2010, 12:20 PM, said:

And, on the subject of cards being detached from hand, I can see that a player who detaches a card, replaces it, detaches another, replaces it and finally plays a third card COULD be giving UI to partner - on the other hand they might just be totally confused. I think in most cases at our Club, the partner of such a player would look quite puzzled if you told them to "carefully avoid taking any advantage from that UI" and would have no idea what information they may have received.

No "could" about it, they have done. They may look puzzled at these ideas, but I guarantee you that if this behaviour occurred when partner was following suit, they won't be playing one back for him to ruff.

[Chris3875]

Gordon, I know the LAW but what does b actually MEAN ?

[pran]

Chris3875, on Sep 27 2010, 05:33 AM, said:

I hate these "grey" areas - a Declarer's card is "played" it is held face up, touching or nearly touching the table - great ! I can understand and rule on that quite easily. But what does "maintained in such a position as to indicate that it has been played" actually mean. That comes down to MY interpretation surely. Our chief tournament director has written to me -

"The card is played if it meets either of two tests: ............ or, it
is maintained, kept motionless, in some exposed position that would
naturally be interpreted by a defender as intent to play."

What does "exposed position" mean ? That people can see the face ?

Sure, what else?

[RMB1]

gordontd, on Sep 27 2010, 07:38 AM, said:

(b) maintained in such a position as to indicate that it has been played.

Chris3875, on Sep 27 2010, 09:36 AM, said:

Gordon, I know the LAW but what does b actually MEAN ?

It means that if the position in which the card is maintained (= held stationary) indicates that the card has been played then it has been played.

So if a card is held anywhere facing anywhere so that (to a neutral observer) declarer has shown than this is the card he intends to play, then the card is played.

I am not surprised that the course giver and the attendees think that a card that has been deliberately detached, and held resting on the table, meets the requirements of (b) and is played.