[Echognome]

Scoring: MP

(P) - 1♠ - (2♥) - P;
(P) - Dbl - (P) - 2♠;
(P) - P - (3♦) - All Pass

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Trick 1: ♦3 - ♦T - ♦2 - ♦4
Trick 2: ♥J - ♥K - ♥A - ♥4
Trick 3: ♦A - ♦9 - ♦6 - ♦5
Trick 4: ♥Q - ♥2 - ♥3 - ?

You play UDCA with partner.

What is your defensive plan?

[rogerclee]

Without thinking about it in detail it seems hard for ruffing to gain, so I would just pitch a spade.

[PrinceNep]

Hey Matt,

LHO appears to be 3-5-4-1 (something like Kxx AQ875 AKJ3 x). Looks right to duck this heart. When LHO plays another heart, partner should cover correctly which is ruffed in dummy. Whatever black suit that LHO now leads (likely spades), we fly Ace and play another Diamond.

Should come to two spades, 1 club and 2 hearts.

The need to ruff two hearts in dummy suggests the poor quality of LHO's suit.

[Phil]

Agree with pitching, although I can't fly in with the ♠A since partner could have Qx.

[PrinceNep]

Phil, on Sep 21 2010, 04:41 PM, said:

Agree with pitching, although I can't fly in with the ♠A since partner could have Qx.

Phil,

This becomes an even more interesting problem then. Surely LHO will go up with the King if they have it. If that is the case, then declarer has 2 hearts, 2 heart ruffs, 4 diamonds and the Spade King for 9 tricks ... so we can never set it if partner has Qx of Spades.

I'd have to change my perspective about the layout in my last post, as obviously if declarer has Kxx then the 10 sets up in Dummy while partners QJ drops doubleton. Now we don't get two spades. I guess we need to find declarer with QJx in Spades instead of Kxx.

[gnasher]

Phil, on Sep 21 2010, 10:41 PM, said:

Agree with pitching, although I can't fly in with the ♠A since partner could have Qx.

Yes you can. There's not much reason for declarer to play to drop ♠Q rather than taking a finesse.

As Princenep says, ♠QJ is more of a problem, but when partner has that we're stuffed anyway.

[mikeh]

Maybe I am missing something, not for the first time, but I don't understand the play of the heart J from dummy if he has weak heart spots as some suggest...I haven't spent a lot of time analyzing the position, but it seems to me likely to have been a 'zero play'...a play that wins, compared to a low heart or winning the trump in hand and leading to the Jx, zero percent of the time and can, altho admittedly rarely, lose...as it did here to the stiff K.

It seems to me that his play makes sense only when he has very strong hearts.....for example, if he has Kx AQ109x AKJx Jx, we'd better ruff the heart Queen to hold them to 110....otherwise, he ruffs the heart x with the Q and we had better find partner with the club J to get our heart ruff back....and now we risk a truly embarrassing -150!

However, I am going to trust partner more than declarer. A lot of weak players routinely lead the J from this holding, since it never occurs to them that the heart K might be stiff onside...and our partner surely is too good to have led a trump with only 8xxxx in hearts.

So I pitch and play for Kx AQ9xx (or worse) and AKJx xx or KJx AQ9xx AKJx x or the like.

[rogerclee]

mikeh, on Sep 21 2010, 04:25 PM, said:

It seems to me that his play makes sense only when he has very strong hearts.....for example, if he has Kx AQ109x AKJx Jx, we'd better ruff the heart Queen to hold them to 110....

Not your best example hand Mike.

[ceeb]

From failing to draw trumps, declarer sees a possible benefit to ruffing twice in dummy. Therefore discarding and subsequently leading a round of trumps (or maybe over-ruffing the dummy's small trump) seems at least break-even compared to ruffing. It is of course nominally break-even: Ruff the Q and allow two ruffs in dummy, or allow the Q and one ruff in dummy.

So for the discard to gain there has to be a matter of tempo or entries, such as stopping the 5th heart from scoring, say from ♥AQ976. Indeed if declarer is even so weak as Kx,AQ976,AKJx,xx (i.e. no ♣J), ruffing isn't a sufficient defense. But neither is discarding: next ♥9,10,♦x,? . So against what hand does it matter?

Discarding does have one advantage. You don't have to decide how to attack in the black suits.

[Echognome]

Scoring: MP

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[bucky]

PrinceNep, on Sep 21 2010, 04:58 PM, said:

Phil, on Sep 21 2010, 04:41 PM, said:

Agree with pitching, although I can't fly in with the ♠A since partner could have Qx.

Phil,

This becomes an even more interesting problem then. Surely LHO will go up with the King if they have it. If that is the case, then declarer has 2 hearts, 2 heart ruffs, 4 diamonds and the Spade King for 9 tricks ... so we can never set it if partner has Qx of Spades.

With ♦8 in hand, how can declarer ever take TWO heart ruffs and come to 9 tricks?

[bucky]

mikeh, on Sep 21 2010, 06:25 PM, said:

It seems to me that his play makes sense only when he has very strong hearts.....for example, if he has Kx AQ109x AKJx Jx, we'd better ruff the heart Queen to hold them to 110....otherwise, he ruffs the heart x with the Q and we had better find partner with the club J to get our heart ruff back....and now we risk a truly embarrassing -150!

This doesn't make sense to me at all. With this hand, wouldn't declarer simply draw 3rd trump, ruff a small H in dummy, and play a spade toward his ♠K? I am assuming the declarer is of at least average caliber, who may make subtle mistakes but not butchering hand like this.

[ceeb]

Echognome, on Sep 22 2010, 02:40 PM, said:

Q6,AQ965,AKJ4,J9

very nice. I guess it falls under the category of entries.

[Hanoi5]

Isn't it the same result whether we ruff or not? Declarer shouldn't make more than 7 tricks.

[bucky]

Hanoi5, on Sep 22 2010, 08:05 PM, said:

Isn't it the same result whether we ruff or not? Declarer shouldn't make more than 7 tricks.

Yes, for this hand there is no difference. But we were talking about the right defense in general.

[ceeb]

Hanoi5, on Sep 22 2010, 08:05 PM, said:

Isn't it the same result whether we ruff or not? Declarer shouldn't make more than 7 tricks.

It might not matter, but double dummy declarer can attack clubs and create a club trick if you allow two entries to the dummy, or even if you discard a ♠. ♣3 is the only sure defense.

Edit -- ♠ discard is ok for now. Then win declarer's ♣ play, exit trump, win ♣, exit with three rounds of ♠, ♥ ruffed in dummy -- now discard ♣ and claim last two tricks.

This post has been edited by ceeb: 2010-September-24, 09:28