Who should be blamed Bidding disaster after weak NT
#1
Posted 2010-September-21, 12:09
North: ..... KJ-----QJ96542----743----------3
South: .... 753----void---------652----KQJ10962
The bidding was:
West-------North-------East-------South
1NT(1)-----pass-------2H(2)-------3C
pass--------3H----------X(3)-------4C
X(4)--------4H----------X(4)-------pass
(1) - weak NT, 12-14
(2) - transfer to spades, unlimited
(3) - for take out
(4) - for penalty.
5 down, -1100, -450(4 spades with overtrick) at the other table, -12 IMPs.
Who should be blamed? N-S use "usual" defence against weak NT - double
14+, 2C = Landy, rest - "natural".
#2
Posted 2010-September-21, 12:15
#3
Posted 2010-September-21, 12:47
jdonn, on Sep 21 2010, 01:15 PM, said:
agreed
#4
Posted 2010-September-21, 13:19
North's hand is pretty useless in clubs and he can at least take some tricks in hearts. And his first heart bid didn't show 7, did it?
#5
Posted 2010-September-21, 16:02
Then 4♣ was trying to run before there was a penalty. Similarly 4♥ was stubborn.
#6
Posted 2010-September-21, 16:32
#7
Posted 2010-September-21, 16:35
S gets the majority of the blame here for loosening the bolts of the wheels that are soon to fall off. S needs more than this to bid directly over the transfer. Agression is nice, but this is pushing it.
South 4♣ over the take out X is simply awful. He's allready over bid once with only a very good 6 count and now must pass.
North's 3♥ is quite reasonable based on the expectations that partner has some values. I would bid 3♥ with reasonable expections of find PD with enough to carry on to game.
North's insisting on this suit at the 4 level is also very bad. He has 1♣ and has to expect PD has a very good suit and can't expect any support.
Blame 75% South as 3♣ is bad and 4♣ horrendous. 25% N as 4♥ is very bad.
.. neilkaz ..
#8
Posted 2010-September-21, 16:43
Nick
#9
Posted 2010-September-21, 20:23
#10
Posted 2010-September-22, 01:58
#1 3C is a terrible bid, 2H is transfer, hence one gets another round of bidding,
which means you dont need to get in at once
#2 I dont like the 3H bid, I would have passed, but ok
#3 the rest is just ...
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#11
Posted 2010-September-22, 02:45
South's 3C bid is poor and Nth could certainly expect more values.
Pulling 4C to 4H is abysmal.
#12
Posted 2010-September-22, 02:50
#13
Posted 2010-September-22, 02:59
cloa513, on Sep 22 2010, 03:50 PM, said:
So, you are saying that people who bid nv vs vul do not need to have the values they promise? That is really good for partnership morale!
#14
Posted 2010-September-22, 03:06
#15
Posted 2010-September-22, 05:20
The_Hog, on Sep 22 2010, 03:59 AM, said:
cloa513, on Sep 22 2010, 03:50 PM, said:
So, you are saying that people who bid nv vs vul do not need to have the values they promise? That is really good for partnership morale!
That is a clever way to twist someone's words around. It looks to me like what he is saying is closer to "people who bid nv vs vul do not promise the same values that they do at other vuls", in other words that south isn't breaking a promise but is simply making a different promise.
I actually agree with you that 3♣ should show a better hand (I like a preemptive 4♣ though, which is also the bid I would certainly open with at this vul), but if we are to disagree with counter-arguments we should at least state what they are correctly and fairly.
I also will agree in that I think your characterization of the 4♥ bid as abysmal is quite accurate.
#16
Posted 2010-September-22, 05:26
#17
Posted 2010-September-22, 07:08
The_Hog, on Sep 22 2010, 08:45 AM, said:
South's 3C bid is poor and Nth could certainly expect more values.
if my english is correct you state that north passing is not the normal bid, yet you say 3♣ is not correct either, this is very contradictional to me.
North 90% blame
#18
Posted 2010-September-22, 09:12
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#19
Posted 2010-September-22, 09:23
1. South's 3♣ overcall (direct 3-level overcall after a weak-NT/transfer sequence) should show at least an opening hand with a good club suit.
2. North's 3-over-3 bid is forcing and shows a 5-card suit.
3. South might well go back to clubs with a singleton or even doubleton heart and 6 good clubs. Maybe this is wrong - maybe he would always bid 3♠ or 3NT with only 6 clubs?
4. North has the option of sitting for 4♣, which has been penalized, with a singleton club or pull to what could be a 7-2 fit and a major suit game. Usually it's best to play in the weak hand's long suit because the weak hand can only take trump tricks and the strong hand can take tricks in either contract.
#20
Posted 2010-September-22, 10:56
quiddity, on Sep 22 2010, 10:23 AM, said:
1. South's 3♣ overcall (direct 3-level overcall after a weak-NT/transfer sequence) should show at least an opening hand with a good club suit.
2. North's 3-over-3 bid is forcing and shows a 5-card suit.
3. South might well go back to clubs with a singleton or even doubleton heart and 6 good clubs. Maybe this is wrong - maybe he would always bid 3♠ or 3NT with only 6 clubs?
4. North has the option of sitting for 4♣, which has been penalized, with a singleton club or pull to what could be a 7-2 fit and a major suit game. Usually it's best to play in the weak hand's long suit because the weak hand can only take trump tricks and the strong hand can take tricks in either contract.
Thank you very much. I was sitting north. And your reasoning was exactly that I made myself.