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xyz auction

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 18:55

Scoring: MP

uncontested auction
1:1
1:2*
2*:3
3N


Comments?
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#2 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 19:48

It looks like a good auction to me. I feel like I'm missing something.
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#3 User is offline   rbouskila 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 20:51

Looks more like a game force to me, and has even slam potential after a 1 opening. bidding it does look hard though, there's no easy way to get both your diamond length and clubs into the picture.

playing XYZ, I'd probably bid it 1,2,3; not playing it, guess 2 then 3?

It's almost strong enough to do a Marshall Miles style Soloway jump shift, at that. Not quite strong enough I guess.

Edit: Would have rebid 1NT with your p's hand, but that's a matter of style.
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#4 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 21:37

jillybean, on Oct 13 2010, 07:55 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

uncontested auction
1:1
1:2*
2*:3
3N


Comments?

hate 1s

hate 2c

'other than that -----------------



------------


if i must bid 1s ok then:



----------------


If i must bid 2c ok then....


------------


but hate
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#5 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 21:49

mike777, on Oct 14 2010, 04:37 PM, said:

jillybean, on Oct 13 2010, 07:55 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

uncontested auction
1:1
1:2*
2*:3
3N


Comments?

hate 1s

hate 2c

'other than that -----------------



------------


if i must bid 1s ok then:



----------------


If i must bid 2c ok then....


------------


but hate

What is wrong with 1?
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#6 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 22:07

Strongly dislike the 1S bid. You are showing 9 cards in 2 suits when in fact you have 7 in a balanced hand.
Prefer
1C 1D
1N 3C
3N
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#7 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 22:18

The_Hog, on Oct 13 2010, 09:07 PM, said:

Strongly dislike the 1S bid. You are showing 9 cards in 2 suits when in fact you have 7 in a balanced hand.
Prefer
1C 1D
1N 3C
3N

3 in xyz (or 2-way NMF, which sometimes accompanies it) is typically a signoff.

I have no problem with the auction and that's exactly how I'd bid it. Alternatively you could try 3 instead of 3 by responder since we've shown longer diamonds already, but I'd expect a 3NT rebid just the same.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#8 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 22:49

The_Hog, on Oct 13 2010, 10:07 PM, said:

Strongly dislike the 1S bid. You are showing 9 cards in 2 suits when in fact you have 7 in a balanced hand.
Prefer
1C 1D
1N  3C
3N

yep. The 1NT rebid opposite a pard who is not an "up the line" person, is just right. Then, 3C (NF, Invite) is just about right opposite the typical minimum for an opening bid these days (including mine). Responder must have longer diamonds, or she would have started with an inverted raise (or raised the NT rebid if balanced.

Tangling things up with XYZ on a 1C-1D-1NT start seems burdensome when responder already knows the size and balanced nature of opener's hand. Forget New Minor Force, there isn't a new minor. Slammish responders could consider 1C-2D (strong). If that isn't part of their repertoir, maybe it should be.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#9 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 22:55

What is the partnership agreement about a 1S rebid? I prefer the Walsh style so I'd rebid 1N, but standard is still 1S and then there's some who play that 1S may only confirm a 4th club...not a 5th.
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#10 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 23:01

straube, on Oct 14 2010, 11:55 AM, said:

What is the partnership agreement about a 1S rebid? I prefer the Walsh style so I'd rebid 1N, but standard is still 1S and then there's some who play that 1S may only confirm a 4th club...not a 5th.

Rebidding 1NT has little to do with Walsh. It is whether you want to show what you have or whether you want to obfuscate your hand type.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#11 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2010-October-13, 23:48

fwiw
1) I dont think walsh has anything do withxyz
2) walsh bidding ten years before xyz is discussed in depth.

--------------


fwiw i SEE NO ISSUE WITH WALSH AND XYZ
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 02:51

Nobody said Jill was playing Walsh, so nothing wrong with the 1 bid. Then you can invite in or using 2. It all seems just fine to me.
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#13 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 03:02

If you don't play walsh the bidding is just fine.
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#14 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 05:18

Free and Fluffy, playing Walsh has NOTHING to do with a 1S bid. Straube incorrectly mentioned it. It depends whether you want to describe your hand or futz around and bid for the sake of it. I understand that some people will open a C and rebid 1S on this. I think it is a VERY poor description of what you hold, but suit yourselves.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#15 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 05:30

The_Hog, on Oct 14 2010, 12:18 PM, said:

Free and Fluffy, playing Walsh has NOTHING to do with a 1S bid. Straube incorrectly mentioned it. It depends whether you want to describe your hand or futz around and bid for the sake of it. I understand that some people will open a C and rebid 1S on this. I think it is a VERY poor description of what you hold, but suit yourselves.

Yes I know that you want to describe your hand, and that's exactly what the 1 bid does. In standard methods it shows a hand with 3+, 4 and 0-3. Playing Walsh or something similar it would show 5+, 4 and 0-3, a much better description obviously. Not playing Walsh you can use the same description and agree that the 1NT rebid is any balanced hand, which seems to be your agreement.

Nobody says the 1 response denies 4M with 6-10HCP, so how will you find your 4-4M fits if you rebid 1NT? This is a choice you've made before you start the auction. Some people prefer to show the balanced nature of the hand, others want to find their best part score. Both methods have merit, both have their flaws. But to claim that the 1 bid is awful or wrong, that's a bridge too far.
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#16 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 08:21

kayin801, on Oct 13 2010, 09:18 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Oct 13 2010, 09:07 PM, said:

Strongly dislike the 1S bid. You are showing 9 cards in 2 suits when in fact you have 7 in a balanced hand.
Prefer
1C 1D
1N  3C
3N

3 in xyz (or 2-way NMF, which sometimes accompanies it) is typically a signoff.

I have no problem with the auction and that's exactly how I'd bid it. Alternatively you could try 3 instead of 3 by responder since we've shown longer diamonds already, but I'd expect a 3NT rebid just the same.

We are using 2N as a relay to 3, so to play in 3 the auction would be
1:1
1N:2N
3

A direct 3/1N is gf for us.

We are not paying Walsh!
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#17 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 08:38

On the table auction, bidding three suits then 3NT locks in the 9th trick on the "marked" heart lead. Nice touch :)
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#18 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 09:11

jillybean, on Oct 14 2010, 02:21 PM, said:

We are not paying Walsh!

Great idea not to pay him, he charges you for insane things he didn't work for :)


But about playing walsh, its a neat convention, most people play it nowadays. It is not something you desperatelly need though.
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#19 User is offline   campboy 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 10:17

I don't understand why responder didn't show club support at any point.
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#20 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 10:30

campboy, on Oct 14 2010, 09:17 AM, said:

I don't understand why responder didn't show club support at any point.

Isn't it more important to show the 6th ?
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