[bftboy]

I wouldn't open hand 3 in any system. Hand 5 is ok to open in Precision, but I wouldn't open it playing 2/1 or SAYC.

[junyi_zhu]

jmcw, on Sep 15 2010, 10:55 PM, said:

Playing precision club (1♣ = 15/17 balanced or 17+) with 2/1, How many of these hands would you open 1M in 1st or 2nd seat?

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If you call 1M on 3 or more then I have another question for you.

Now, over 1S you hold an average 12 count with no immediate fit, (Qx KQx Kxxxx Qx)(xx AKxx Jxx KJxx) Will you make a GF 2/1 or do you require 13 or 14?

I really want to know because my partner argues all the above should be opened regardless of vul and any good 12 and all 13+ point responding hands can insist on game. I'm not convinced but trying to keep an open mind!

Tx to all who reply.

The basic design of your partner's system is not to avoid most unmakable games, but to bid most possible games, which is playable, although looks aggressive to many. Of course, if you agree to play his system, all the hands should be opened and you may need to struggle in many games. So it certainly needs some good declaring skill and soft defense.

[jmcw]

FrancesHinden, on Sep 18 2010, 01:56 PM, said:

Maybe I'm missing a subtle point in this thread, but I don't understand the point of this discussion.  If you work on the general assumption that (unless you have a good fit somewhere or extra shape) you need 24+ HCP between the hands for game, then if you open most 10-11 points, you need 14+ HCP to game force if you have nothing special.  This doesn't seem very controversial.

I think this is exactly the point. Not most ALL! if you agree to open all 11 HCP and at least most 10 HCP with a 5C Major and play 2/1 style. Then how strong must a 2/1 GF bid be!

Partner says add a point so 13 becomes a GF something like

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Would anyone play this as GF opposite 1♠ when P can have 10 or 11 points?

[rhm]

I would open 1 and 4, and pass the rest. 2 is the type of hand, which is frequently overrated, but the hand is certainly much better than hand 3 or 5.

I was interested how these hands would do double dummy opposite 12 HCP with a mild fit: Hands, where I would expect the vast majority to force to game. So I did a simulation specifying 3 cards opposite the longest major and less than an 8 card fit in the other major. I generated 1000 deals each

result:

deal 1: 4♠ made 47.3% of the time; average number of tricks: 9.43

deal 2: 4♥ made 32.5% of the time; average number of tricks 9.06

deal 3: 4♠ made 14.3% of the time; average number of tricks 8.55

deal 4: 4♥ made 71.7% of the time; average number of tricks 9.95

deal 5: 4♥ made 17.1% of the time; average number of tricks 8.66

Rainer Herrmann

[mikeyg85]

I really like this post....When I open 2 suiter hands (ie unbalanced) I almost always use loser count as against point count. I've found this most effective at match point..however be careful that partner knows that 1 major can be as low as 9 or even 8 points.

[Zelandakh]

With limited openers I like to open most 10pt 5-4 hands but practically no 10pt 5332 hands. Responder GFs with a hand worth 13 but obviously that can include an upgraded 12. The point is that the 5-4 shape is worth an extra hcp. In this style all of your example hands are openers and neither of your responding hands may GF. If you routinely open 10pt 5332 hands and 8-9pt shapely hands then 14+ would seem to be sensible. It does not matter so much where you draw the lines so long as you agree and can make sensible decisions.