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3 ranges of balanced hand to reach 1Nt i hate 3 pts range.

#1 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2010-September-14, 19:13

1NT is your weakest range.

1C--1D (is 5H or waiting)

1C--1D--1Nt is your strong range.

1C--1D--1H--1S--1Nt is middle range.

If responder show a suit you have good/many ways to show extras values.

Even if they are by far the most popular 3pts are the worst ranges. You really need some invite yet the invite arent frequent enough to justify the bids/space for them.

1- do you agree with that ?

2- what is the best solution.

a- play 1 wide range and 2 narrow range.
b- play 3 x 2.5 range and push the 20pts hand to the 2 level (and pass some below average 12)

c 3 narrow range and show the 19-20 at the 2 level.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#2 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2010-September-14, 19:27

benlessard, on Sep 14 2010, 09:13 PM, said:

... c 3 narrow range and show the 19-20 at the 2 level.

do you mean at the 2NT level or the 2 level?
'I hit my peak at seven' Taylor Swift
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#3 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2010-September-14, 19:40

Try few ranges shown with say 20+ asks are you bust, partner?
I have 1N:10-13 opener,
1D(F1) and 1N rebid is 14-16,
1C(F1) and 1NT rebid is 18-19
1C and 1H over 1D(neg) asks 5 pointsto show,
0-4 to 1S(2nd neg)
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#4 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2010-September-14, 21:05

benlessard, on Sep 15 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

2- what is the best solution.

a- play 1 wide range and 2 narrow range.
b- play 3 x 2.5 range and push the 20pts hand to the 2 level (and pass some below average 12)

c 3 narrow range and show the 19-20 at the 2 level.

I can't tell you as I don't play strong club much. However, I do have 2, and as either strong openers or with strong options - which gives three ranges for the 2NT rebid. There are some hands (not so many at this sort of range obviously) where our tighter ranges help to find a close game that the field doesn't - or help us to stay out of a bad game the field has punted. So, yeah, there is some mileage to be had out of tighter ranges.

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#5 User is offline   SteelWheel 

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Posted 2010-September-15, 00:23

Al Roth was never a big fan of invitational sequences after "our" side opens 1NT. Always believed that if you evaluated your hand well, you could decide whether or not to bid a game. Then again, his system was based around the classic 16-18 NT opening range, which probably makes it a bit easier to evaluate your 8 or 9 count and decide whether or not it's worth a go. 12-14, 10-12, etc, probably require more room be given to invitational sequences, as it becomes a little harder to "read" opener's hand when there are many different quacky hands that fall into those ranges.
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#6 User is offline   bhtf 

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Posted 2010-September-15, 06:35

old question ? not, and many ways
mine, probably not the best (sry)))

1C(15+)-1D-3NT 28-30
1C(15+)-1D-2NT 25-27 or 31+
2D(multi) then NT : 23-24
2NT 21-22
1C-1D-1NT : 15-20, the "key" feature [*]
1D-1M-1NT : 11-14

1NT AS YOU LIKE !
and usual for me : 11-13 white, 14-16 no S 4 red

[*] then the "key" feature :
--- 1C ==> 1K 0-5 or 9+, others (5)6-8(9)
--- 1C-1D-1NT 15-20 [very large ? yes !], then the captain/responder :

0-5 => stop in major 5+ or minor 6+ by transfert way, or Pass
6-7 => have not gone by 1C-1D relay
8-9 and major 5+ : idem
8-9 and major 4 : 2D-2H-2NT, 2H-2S-2NT
8-9 and 44 major : 2C-2D-2S, 2C-2H-3D (limit or slam), 2C-2S-3H (limit or slam)
[note : 2C-2D-2H is GF, 2C-2M-2NT is GF too]
8-9 no major 4+ : 2S "Rodwell", for => 2NT 15-16, 3C 17-18, 3D 19-20
10+ GF : all other bids avaliables
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#7 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2010-September-15, 07:31

Quote

do you mean at the 2NT level or the 2 level?
meant at 2D. Our 1D opening is 12-22 even in a strong clubs setup, 2D is always available for big bal or extra strenght.

Another thing im thinking is ...
The question to ask is when finding a 4-4 at the 1 level matter most ?
1 When responder is weak and its possible 2M makes and 1Nt go down.
2 When responder is inv and it allow you to bid game on a fit that might be missed if opener rebid 1Nt.

So if
1C--1D--1H is bal wide range.

1C--1D--1H--1NT (is inv without 4M) (wrongside but 1NT wont go down)

1C--1D--1H--1S--1Nt (can be 15-20)

1C--1H (exactly 4S inv or weakish) or GF with 6S

1C--1S (exactly 4H inv) or GF with 6H

Do any1 play similar setup ?

This allow for 1C--1D--1Nt (forcing)= clubs or bal 20+
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#8 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2010-September-15, 11:05

benlessard, on Sep 15 2010, 09:31 AM, said:

Quote

do you mean at the 2NT level or the 2 level?
meant at 2D. ... 2D is always available for big bal or extra strenght. ...

If 2 is available for 19-20 balanced, I would then go with 3 narrow ranges. The stop low or go to game auctions are winners.
'I hit my peak at seven' Taylor Swift
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#9 User is offline   spotlight7 

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Posted 2010-September-15, 13:10

Hi:

1C*-1D*-2H*=GF balanced 'or' hearts. Partner bids 2S* and you bid 2NT GF balanced with suit bids showing GF with hearts plus the suit bid. :)

Regards,
Robert
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#10 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2010-September-15, 13:19

Maybe not a helpful reply as I play a 15-16 1NT in a 2 over 1 framework, with 17/18 being shown with 1 1/ transfer walsh 1NT, and all higher levels of NT also being 2 point ranges. I find 2 point ranges far and away better. No strength inquiries over them means more natural (or otherwise, given the forum) continuations.
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#11 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2010-September-15, 20:55

benlessard, on Sep 15 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

1- do you agree with that ?

2- what is the best solution.

a- play 1 wide range and 2 narrow range.
b- play 3 x 2.5 range and push the 20pts hand to the 2 level (and pass some below average 12)

c 3 narrow range and show the 19-20 at the 2 level.

1. No. I play by choice the very simple 1NT = 12-14...1C-1D-1NT = 15-17...and 1C-1D-1H-1S-1NT = 18-20.

2. Best solution is to recognise that 1D-1M-1NT is also an option allowing you to have 4 ranges. So something like

1D, nt rebid = 11-13
1NT = 14-16
1C-1D-1NT = 17-18
1C-1D-1H-1S-1NT = 19-20

Imho it does not make sense to drop the opening 1NT to fewer than a 3 point range. With the 2 point range rebids you can reasonably use the 'invite' sequences as slam tries.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#12 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2010-September-16, 11:18

Prior discussion of narrower NT ranges.
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