[jjbrr]

agree with clee

[nigel_k]

I don't claim to know what is standard, but I would be very surprised if it was standard to have no way to show a limit raise with four trumps.

[bluecalm]

Quote

I don't claim to know what is standard, but I would be very surprised if it was standard to have no way to show a limit raise with four trumps.

Not having a way to show preemptive raise or mixed raise sucks even more though !
I would be surprised (amused...) if any expert partnership playing wide range openers don't have a way to show weak/preemptive raise with 4+ trumps.
My understanding is that most expert+ partnerships use 3M for the purpose. From the answer in this thread it seems that's wrong though.
So what you people consider standard among your bridge playing exp+ friends ?

[inquiry]

Little Kid, on Aug 22 2010, 04:32 AM, said:

Partner opens 1♠ in first seat, which is quite nice as you hold:

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ KJ62 ♥ 6 ♦ 843 ♣ A7654

This hand seemed too good for a preemptive raise to 3♠, even vul. Since we played no gadgets other than a general 2/1 structure and Jacoby 2NT I decided to go via 1NT and most likely show a 3-card limit raise next. Thoughts?

Zar (and I) would say that this is a game force hand opposite a 5 card major 1♠ opener. And getting to game quickly has advantages in shutting out potential heart interference.... I would not be surprized that opposite some minimish opening hands slam is possible. For examle give partner

Axxxxx
xxx
Ax
KQ

That is just 13 hcp, and yet 6S, 4C (ruff one), 1D, and 2 h ruffs comes to 13 possbile tricks, but sadly you had to lose the heart ace to get your heart ruffs.

[gnasher]

bluecalm, on Aug 23 2010, 03:25 AM, said:

I would be surprised (amused...) if any expert partnership playing wide range openers don't have a way to show weak/preemptive raise with 4+ trumps.
My understanding is that most expert+ partnerships use 3M for the purpose. From the answer in this thread it seems that's wrong though.
So what you people consider standard among your bridge playing exp+ friends ?

You seem to be conflating two different questions:

(1) What should one assume playing "no gadgets other than a general 2/1 structure?"

For most of us, the answer would be that 1♠-3♠ is a limit raise.

It may well be that when two Polish players play without discussion they should assume that 2NT shows a limit raise. On the other hand, it seems unlikely that they'd be playing 2/1 in the first place.

(2) What do most strong partnerships who have discussed it play?

Amongst my friends, it's probably most common to use 2NT as a limit raise or better, with 3♠ either mixed or weak. Some pairs play Bergen or something like it, and some just play 3♠ as a limit raise.

[hanp]

I would assume that 1M - 3M is preemptive when undiscussed in the Netherlands. Not that I enjoy playing undiscussed-bridge.

Playing "standard" I'd also show a 4-card limit raise with this hand. With my regular partner I play that 2NT shows 7-13 HCP with 4-card support. If partner has slam interest he can ask what kind of hand I have so I can tell I have 7-10 HCP and short hearts.

[gnasher]

Regarding the hand in the original post, I agree with Zar and (more happily) with Ben. I'm definitely bidding to the game level, and a reasonable compromise between preemption and constructive bidding is a 4♥ splinter.

[hanp]

I think it would be a serious mistake to splinter with this hand. Unless you have the unusual agreement that a splinter typically shows an 8-count, partner will expect about a king more than you have. And since partner has no room left to investigate below 4S, you will often get too high.

Again, if you play that 4H shows this hand, then I would bid 4H as well.

[jdonn]

Cascade, on Aug 22 2010, 01:19 PM, said:

If standard 2/1 doesn't have a way to make a limit four-card raise then that is another reason why you don't want to play such a system.

Rest easy, it does. Preemptive raises aren't even close to standard, in fact they aren't even close to majority.