[Rossoneri]

Scoring: MP

P-2♣-2♦-?

---

Say 2♣ is your usual big hand bid.

[ONEferBRID]

Pass! = waiting, but positive....
.... because DBL! = 2nd negative.

[gwnn]

what the guy with a lot of caps in his nickname said

[Free]

gwnn, on Aug 11 2010, 11:23 AM, said:

what the guy with a lot of caps in his nickname said

yeah

[pooltuna]

Free, on Aug 11 2010, 06:19 AM, said:

gwnn, on Aug 11 2010, 11:23 AM, said:

what the guy with a lot of caps in his nickname said

yeah

3

[neilkaz]

ONEferBRID, on Aug 11 2010, 05:16 AM, said:

Pass! = waiting, but positive....
.... because DBL! = 2nd negative.

Agreed and this is standard, but someone please tell me good reasons why it isn't the other way around? ie Pass=dbl negative and X=positive?

Thx .. neilkaz ..

[bluecalm]

Quote

Agreed and this is standard, but someone please tell me good reasons why it isn't the other way around? ie Pass=dbl negative and X=positive?

I was about to post the same thing.
Imo pass should be either weak or some very rare hand like say positive 2suiter and dbl should be positive balanced.
The reason is that it's better to have 2 very different meanings in one bid than 2 similar ones because it's easier to say which one partner has later also pass gives you more space so it's logical to put more hand types there.

[manudude03]

I think it's just because its more consistent with other auctions. From what I can tell, DOPI/ROPI is more common than DIPO/RIPO (and in the former, pass shows more). When you have the balance of power, pass tends to show a better hand than double in high level auctions.

I can't really think of any reasons why this is the more popular way with 2C specifically. Perhaps something like with a bad hand, the desire to defend increases, and forces LHO to guess what to do with void or singleton in partner's suit.

Back to OP, agree with pass.

[bluecalm]

Quote

When you have the balance of power, pass tends to show a better hand than double in high level auctions.

Yeah probably that's the reason. I usually play the other way around (dbl is t/o in forcing pass situations and pass is weak asking for double) so my intuition is different here.

Anyway assuming standard pass doesn't seem to have alternative in OP.

[gurgistan]

Just to clarify:

Partner opens 2♣, his RHO intervenes at the two level and I should pass if I have one trick and double if I have no tricks?

What if I have two tricks to add to partners expected 8.5 tricks?

[manudude03]

You double with no tricks, pass with 1 or more*, though tricks is a bad way to decribe it, implies you can't really count on QJx in a suit etc.


* assuming you don't have a better bid available.

[dkharty]

neilkaz, on Aug 11 2010, 08:21 AM, said:

ONEferBRID, on Aug 11 2010, 05:16 AM, said:

Pass! = waiting, but positive....
.... because DBL! = 2nd negative.

Agreed and this is standard, but someone please tell me good reasons why it isn't the other way around? ie Pass=dbl negative and X=positive?

Thx .. neilkaz ..

I always thought the reason, or one of them, was to preserve the option of punishing the opponents. Playing pass=positive, and knowing partner has something, opener can double back with the balanced 22-24 point hand, surely one of the most common hand types for the 2C opener. With more, or a different hand type (strong one- or two-suiter or whatever) opener can do something else. And responder, with a couple of cards and some trump length, can convert; or do something else descriptive. Playing dbl=positive, you will never nail the opps unless opener has the overcall beat in his own hand, since he doesn't know the nature of the positive response.

[Zelandakh]

Over here, the method described (X = negative) is expert standard whereas the reverse (P = negative, X = positive) is intermediate standard. Playing with a random partner on BBO I would tend to assume the latter.

[mycroft]

I always thought the reason was to make punishing the opponents easier when you don't have a game force.

2C-2H-X- and fourth hand has to deal with the fact that with a balanced minimum, it's going to go all pass. And if fourth hand pulls 2H or XX, opener might have pulled the double if he passed, bit now maybe more interested in doubling.
2C-2H-P-, fourth hand is going to get another chance to bid if opener decides to play for penalties.

I don't expect many partnerships have a distinction between 2C-2H-p-<something> vs 2C-2H-p-p; X-p-p-<something> (including XX) but I'd rather give them that parlay when we're defending against our "known" game, and make life harder for them when we're defending against our potential no-game.