[kgr]

Scoring: MP

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Your partner Opens 2♦ Multi. This is either:
- Weak 2 in Major
- Semi forcing minor
- 20-22 HCP Balanced

RHO bids 2♠.

Is DBL penalty or info (..not agreed, but what do you think is the best agreement)?
What do you bid?

[the hog]

X is takeout.

[inquiry]

DBl is takeout here is best...

[kgr]

2D-(2S)-X
Ok. It will be take out. What does it show? 2 card H can probably be sufficient?
And: any justification for playing it take out?
More likely that you have the penalty DBL then partner?
=======
The was a very bad hand. I don't know the exact hand anymore, but the bidding did go (no agreements on what DBL would be!!):
2D-(2S)-3H
3NT-4NT
3H: I hope partner has 6 card H. Then it could even be 4.
3NT: partner did have 6 card spades and a strong weak hand (this is around 10 HCP)
4NT: partner did think a bid before bidding 3NT. If we would have bid it immediatly then it could have been 20-22 HCP. Now i felt like I had to bid 4NT.
Result: 4NT -1 (3NT would have been a top).

[Chamaco]

kgr, on Aug 6 2004, 01:20 PM, said:

2D-(2S)-X
Ok. It will be take out. What does it show? 2 card H can probably be sufficient?
And: any justification for playing it take out?
More likely that you have the penalty DBL then partner?
=======
The was a very bad hand. I don't know the exact hand anymore, but the bidding did go (no agreements on what DBL would be!!):
2D-(2S)-3H
3NT-4NT
3H: I hope partner has 6 card H. Then it could even be 4.
3NT: partner did have 6 card spades and a strong weak hand (this is around 10 HCP)
4NT: partner did think a bid before bidding 3NT. If we would have bid it immediatly then it could have been 20-22 HCP. Now i felt like I had to bid 4NT.
Result: 4NT -1 (3NT would have been a top).

I do not like 3H, that should be a pass/correct competitive bid IMO.
If X is not takeout, then 3♠ is the bid: you are willing to play game opposite any possible pard's hand (H preempt, strong minor, big balanced)

[inquiry]

kgr, on Aug 6 2004, 09:20 AM, said:

2D-(2S)-X
Ok. It will be take out. What does it show? 2 card H can probably be sufficient?
And: any justification for playing it take out?
More likely that you have the penalty DBL then partner?
=======
The was a very bad hand. I don't know the exact hand anymore, but the bidding did go (no agreements on what DBL would be!!):
2D-(2S)-3H
3NT-4NT
3H: I hope partner has 6 card H. Then it could even be 4.
3NT: partner did have 6 card spades and a strong weak hand (this is around 10 HCP)
4NT: partner did think a bid before bidding 3NT. If we would have bid it immediatly then it could have been 20-22 HCP. Now i felt like I had to bid 4NT.
Result: 4NT -1 (3NT would have been a top).

Well, I suspect 2♠-X would have been a top... but that is a different issue...

This hand and your result illustrates why 2♠X should be takeout. IF you guess to bid 3♥ (pass/correct), what is your partner to do with weak hand and spades? 3NT reallly needs to be the big balanced hand. Also note, if he has the big balanced hand, he can also pass the 2♠-X as well.

Now for you are more likely to have a penalty double hand issue. IT is true, after your partner has defined his hand (weak two.. presumably hearts), you may desire to double 2♠. But here is what happens.. if you have a bunch of spades and a good hand, your partner iwll be very short in spades. When the bidding comes back to him, he will have an option to dbl (I have hearts) or pass... 2NT of course would be balanced hand and 3 of a minor the minor thing. If he doubles, you can lick your lips and now pass. IF not, well, you didn't have enough to force to game, and maybe they belonged in a minor.

Ben

[whereagles]

Some people play that, after a multi opening by their side, double of any major suit overcall is pass/correct. That fits this hand like a glove.

[kgr]

Quote

Now for you are more likely to have a penalty double hand issue. IT is true, after your partner has defined his hand (weak two.. presumably hearts), you may desire to double 2♠. But here is what happens.. if you have a bunch of spades and a good hand, your partner iwll be very short in spades. When the bidding comes back to him, he will have an option to dbl (I have hearts) or pass... 2NT of course would be balanced hand and 3 of a minor the minor thing. If he doubles, you can lick your lips and now pass. IF not, well, you didn't have enough to force to game, and maybe they belonged in a minor.

Ben,

Still not sure about this: If 2♦ opener has a weak 2♥ he still should DBL when 2♠ comes back to him? DBL by 2♦ opener is also info? I don't think he will want to do that a lot, why didn't he open 3♥ then? And what does he bid then with 6 card ♠ or with strong hand (20-22) without ♠ stopper?

[Trpltrbl]

X is penalty. Sorry Ron, but I have to disagree there.
If 2♠ is real, we have a nice ♥ game.
Problem is what is my bid, and I opt for 3♠, the raise to 4♥ or if pd has ♠ to 3 NT.

Mike