[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on Jul 12 2010, 02:31 AM, said:

The auction doesn't always go 1♦-1♠;2♦, and after any other start you'll be able to show invitational values.

1D 1S 2C?

[mike777]

i guess i can come up with a way to 6d but........forced




1nt(14-16)?=2h
2s=4nt(quant)?
6d?

[Cyberyeti]

mich-b, on Jul 12 2010, 02:02 AM, said:

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 01:33 AM, said:

mich-b, on Jul 12 2010, 01:27 AM, said:

kayin801, on Jul 12 2010, 12:11 AM, said:

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥ (catchall force, planning to show a GF with ♦ support)

How do those who play this way (2♥ does not promiss ♥s) , sort out things when opener has 4♥s and raises?
Would 3♣ in this auction be a "catchall" as well ? Do you tend to bid your better fragment?

And if 2♥ is not GF , wouldn't opener bid 3NT with his maximum rather than presumably non forcing 2NT?

This and many other reasons is why 2H has to be a GF. I mean for the reason alone that partner has to bid 3H with a min or max with hearts (cant jump to 4 when 2H doesnt show hearts), and just the fact that jumping around is so bad...

If you play that 2♥ is GF , how do you handle hands with 5-4 majors and invitational strength?

I play the same 2♥ relay but invitational or better and with very different responses.

We'd bid:

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥
3N-4♦ etc

If you have 5♠/4♥ invitational, this is what 1♦-1♠-2♦-2N shows as a hand that wants to bid a natural invitational 2N goes through the 2♥ relay.

[the hog]

I like
1NT 2NT t/f to Ds
3D 3S s/ton. Now the NT hand looks good.

[Cascade]

The_Hog, on Jul 12 2010, 07:47 PM, said:

I like
1NT 2NT t/f to Ds
3D 3S s/ton. Now the NT hand looks good.

Ron i think the diamond hand is the dealer since the opening post had a 1♦ opening. The hand is from ACBL so they won't allow 1♦ = spades

[gnasher]

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 08:36 AM, said:

gnasher, on Jul 12 2010, 02:31 AM, said:

The auction doesn't always go 1♦-1♠;2♦, and after any other start you'll be able to show invitational values.

1D 1S 2C?

2NT. I didn't say anything about showing hearts, did I?

Anyway, if partner happens to have a 0454 shape he should bid 3♥ over 2NT, even with a complete minimum.

[Free]

Phil, on Jul 12 2010, 07:07 AM, said:

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 12:10 AM, said:

3N is a huge LOL bid*

*I only call it a bid since technically it is.

I know, I made the 3N call. It deserves a LOL.

My only excuse was it was the last board, and I wanted to get the hell out of there.

If you really wanted to get out of there, you should've bid 5♦ or 6♦ instead of 3NT, that way you weren't declarer!

[Codo]

I play just new minor forcing, but even then 6 diamond is easily possible, so you do not need to play 2 ♥ as forcing.

1 ♦ 1 ♠
2 ♦ 3 ♣
3 NT 4 ♦ nat. (KC)
5 ♦ 5 ♥ (good hand 2+ Q) Kings?
5 NT 5 ♦ (Heart King, no spade king)

[keylime]

3NT? Wow.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Jul 12 2010, 04:41 AM, said:

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 08:36 AM, said:

gnasher, on Jul 12 2010, 02:31 AM, said:

The auction doesn't always go 1♦-1♠;2♦, and after any other start you'll be able to show invitational values.

1D 1S 2C?

2NT. I didn't say anything about showing hearts, did I?

Anyway, if partner happens to have a 0454 shape he should bid 3♥ over 2NT, even with a complete minimum.

I think that's an astonishingly bold statement to make so definitively!

Ok delete "astonishingly" I guess but I still don't know how you can be so sure that's right.

[H_KARLUK]

Winner takes all, bid 7NT

[gnasher]

jdonn, on Jul 12 2010, 04:44 PM, said:

I think that's an astonishingly bold statement to make so definitively!

Ok delete "astonishingly" I guess but I still don't know how you can be so sure that's right.

Well, it's not unlikely that responder has four hearts. Most invitations with three diamonds would bid 3♦; all invitations with four clubs would bid 3♣. That means he'll usually be 5323 or 54xx.

The upside of finding a heart fit is huge - 4♥ will play miles better than 2NT. And the downside of not finding one isn't that high - you end up going one more down in 3NT than you would have done in 2NT. OK, there is some risk of being doubled, but not that high.

[jdonn]

How do all invitations with 4 clubs bid 3♣, that's game forcing. They all bid 2♥ or 2NT or 3♦ (or 3♠). And why do you assume 2NT couldn't have been making exactly?

[gnasher]

jdonn, on Jul 12 2010, 06:03 PM, said:

How do all invitations with 4 clubs bid 3♣, that's game forcing. They all bid 2♥ or 2NT or 3♦ (or 3♠). And why do you assume 2NT couldn't have been making exactly?

Are we talking about the same sequence? I'm talking about
  1♦-1♠
  2♣

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Jul 12 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jul 12 2010, 06:03 PM, said:

How do all invitations with 4 clubs bid 3♣, that's game forcing. They all bid 2♥ or 2NT or 3♦ (or 3♠). And why do you assume 2NT couldn't have been making exactly?

Are we talking about the same sequence? I'm talking about
  1♦-1♠
  2♣

My bad somehow I mentally switched to 2♦ rebid. Still 2NT could be making and if 2NT was down you need hearts to play 3 tricks better to make game there, which is asking a lot when you have a minimum opposite an invitation in a 4-4 fit.

[the hog]

Cascade, on Jul 12 2010, 04:28 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Jul 12 2010, 07:47 PM, said:

I like
1NT 2NT t/f to Ds
3D  3S   s/ton. Now the NT hand looks good.

Ron i think the diamond hand is the dealer since the opening post had a 1♦ opening. The hand is from ACBL so they won't allow 1♦ = spades

Thanks Wayne, I don't know where I was when I posted this.