[kfay]

Scoring: IMP

1♠-(3♥)-3♠-(4♥)
?

---

[whereagles]

4♠, then 5 if necessary.

[Fluffy]

I'll try a rexford double that shows ownage of the hand and its forcing to 4♠ at least, creating a forcing pass sequence at the 5 and 6 level.

[gnasher]

Anything more than 4♠ is wildly optimistic. Even opposite Kxxx xxx Kxx Kxx slam isn't special, and partner can be much less suitable than that. He would bid 3♠ with KJxx xxx Qx xxxx, wouldn't he?

[JLOL]

gnasher, on Jul 10 2010, 07:21 AM, said:

Even opposite Kxxx xxx Kxx Kxx slam isn't special

lol

[gnasher]

JLOL, on Jul 10 2010, 01:40 PM, said:

gnasher, on Jul 10 2010, 07:21 AM, said:

Even opposite Kxxx xxx Kxx Kxx slam isn't special

lol

Oh yes. Maybe "isn't cold" would have been closer.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Jul 10 2010, 08:16 AM, said:

JLOL, on Jul 10 2010, 01:40 PM, said:

gnasher, on Jul 10 2010, 07:21 AM, said:

Even opposite Kxxx xxx Kxx Kxx slam isn't special

lol

Oh yes. Maybe "isn't cold" would have been closer.

Just move a spade to hearts to make it unspecial enough.

Anyway obvious 4♠ I think.

[kfay]

I guess I'm just crazy!

Partner's hand was J10xx x Q10xxx Kxx

He didn't bid 6♠ over 5♥.... but my question is how often do we get to a bad 5♠ v. a good 6♠ by bidding 5♥? I thought it was totally clear.

Probably one of the best players that I speak to somewhat regularly bid 6♠... which yeah I think is crazy but to me it makes me think that obvious '4♠' is really crazy too.

Maybe people will say 'lol they have 12 hearts?!?!?! wtf?'... well they bid enough against you.


But maybe I'm way off base. I've spent some time thinking about this hand and am not totally sure that 5♥ is right but I'm 100% sure that an obv 4♠ is wrong. Also, wildly optimistic, gnasher? wtf?

As an aside: how good a hand does a r/w 3♠ promise? To me this is just about the low end, but I am not sure. On this auction doesn't partner rate to have longer hearts and so probably a stronger hand? Yes wastage in hearts is bad but severe wastage is less likely at these colors.

[pooltuna]

kfay, on Jul 12 2010, 01:36 PM, said:

I guess I'm just crazy!

Partner's hand was J10xx x Q10xxx Kxx

He didn't bid 6♠ over 5♥.... but my question is how often do we get to a bad 5♠ v. a good 6♠ by bidding 5♥? I thought it was totally clear.

Probably one of the best players that I speak to somewhat regularly bid 6♠... which yeah I think is crazy but to me it makes me think that obvious '4♠' is really crazy too.

Maybe people will say 'lol they have 12 hearts?!?!?! wtf?'... well they bid enough against you.


But maybe I'm way off base. I've spent some time thinking about this hand and am not totally sure that 5♥ is right but I'm 100% sure that an 'obvious' or 'optimistic' 4♠ is wrong.

Change the hand slightly to J10xx x Q10xx Kxxx, though... I understand! But how good a hand does a r/w 3♠ promise? To me this is just about the low end, but I am not sure.

The only way to come to any conclusion would be to run a simul with this hand opposite parter's 3♠ call which to me ought to be about a normal constructive raise. Perhaps then you can see if 4♠ or 6♠ makes the most sense.

[kfay]

pooltuna, on Jul 12 2010, 01:41 PM, said:

kfay, on Jul 12 2010, 01:36 PM, said:

I guess I'm just crazy!

Partner's hand was J10xx x Q10xxx Kxx

He didn't bid 6♠ over 5♥.... but my question is how often do we get to a bad 5♠ v. a good 6♠ by bidding 5♥?  I thought it was totally clear. 

Probably one of the best players that I speak to somewhat regularly bid 6♠... which yeah I think is crazy but to me it makes me think that obvious '4♠' is really crazy too.

Maybe people will say 'lol they have 12 hearts?!?!?! wtf?'... well they bid enough against you.


But maybe I'm way off base.  I've spent some time thinking about this hand and am not totally sure that 5♥ is right but I'm 100% sure that an 'obvious' or 'optimistic' 4♠ is wrong.

Change the hand slightly to J10xx x Q10xx Kxxx, though... I understand!  But how good a hand does a r/w 3♠ promise?  To me this is just about the low end, but I am not sure.

The only way to come to any conclusion would be to run a simul with this hand opposite parter's 3♠ call which to me ought to be about a normal constructive raise. Perhaps then you can see if 4♠ or 6♠ makes the most sense.

Like I said I think 6♠ is crazy.

But to not even offer a chance to get to 6♠ when I'm fairly sure that we have reasonable 5-level safety is also crazy. I've hardly seen so many pessimistic bids from the people I usually speak to/forums. So I'm just looking into why it seems I'm suddenly 'wildly optimistic'

[jdonn]

kfay, on Jul 12 2010, 01:36 PM, said:

He didn't bid 6♠ over 5♥.... but my question is how often do we get to a bad 5♠ v. a good 6♠ by bidding 5♥?

You should also ask yourself how often do you just get to a bad 6♠ by bidding 5♥? And why 5♥ anyway why not 5♣?

Btw do you realize partner's actual hand is an advertisement for bidding 4♠ not for trying for slam? You will not get to slam over a slam try anyway but there is an extremely slight chance of going down in 5.

[aguahombre]

I will roll the dice now. I can't decide later, because there will be a BIT.

[kfay]

jdonn, on Jul 12 2010, 01:49 PM, said:

kfay, on Jul 12 2010, 01:36 PM, said:

He didn't bid 6♠ over 5♥.... but my question is how often do we get to a bad 5♠ v. a good 6♠ by bidding 5♥?

You should also ask yourself how often do you just get to a bad 6♠ by bidding 5♥? And why 5♥ anyway why not 5♣?

Btw do you realize partner's actual hand is an advertisement for bidding 4♠ not for trying for slam? You will not get to slam over a slam try anyway but there is an extremely slight chance of going down in 5.

That's a good point about not getting there.

Do you think 5♣ is better? I thought it 5♥ was my strongest move! Doesn't it show 1) controls in both minors, 2) 1st round control of hearts? (2) Is important since partner won't go ballistic with the ♥A (advertisement for 4♠ since if he hold that card we're in bad shape).

Haven't thought extensively about getting to a bad slam. Figured if partner rejected on this hand where slam is pretty excellent that it wouldn't be a significant factor but I could be wrong.

[jdonn]

What 5♥ shows control in every suit? I must have missed the boat on that one. I wonder what you bid with AKQxxxxx A Qx Qx (haha example)?

[billw55]

I chose 5♣. I admit I don't understand 5♥; why not cuebid up the line? This gives partner room for 5♦ with the ♦K, which is a huge card toward slam.

[JLOGIC]

jdonn, on Jul 12 2010, 02:31 PM, said:

What 5♥ shows control in every suit? I must have missed the boat on that one. I wonder what you bid with AKQxxxxx A Qx Qx (haha example)?

4S?