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The same or not the same

Poll: How would you bid this pair of hands under the give constraints? (35 member(s) have cast votes)

How would you bid this pair of hands under the give constraints?

  1. I would bid the same, 3 Diamonds (8 votes [22.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.86%

  2. I would bid the same, 2NT (3 votes [8.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.57%

  3. I would bid 3D on the first, 2NT on the second (10 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  4. I would bid 2NT on the first, 3D on the second (2 votes [5.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.71%

  5. 3D or 2NT on the 2nd hand, but 3C on the first one (requested) (12 votes [34.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.29%

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#1 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 22:35

The auction is the same for both hands.... time for your second bid

YOU PARTNER
1♦   1♠
?

And you hold either of these two hands

HAND ONE ♠A9 ♥72 ♦AKQT62 ♣KQ2
HAND TWO ♠A7 ♥Q5 ♦ AKQ742 ♣Q93

Now assume your agreement is a jump to 2NT here shows 17-19 hcp and balanced, and a jump to 3D shows a six or seven card suit, less than 3♠ and 17-18 hcp non forcing.

I suspect most of us will bid these hands the same (but I might be surprised). I am mildly curious why someone would choose one option over the other but bid them both ways. I am just wondering if anyone would bid 2NT with one and 3♦ with the other and why (if htey would).

You can vote and not comment, but if you vote to treat them differently, I would appreciate hearing your logic.
--Ben--

#2 User is offline   MarkDean 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 22:42

I would rebid 2NT on the second one and 3♦ on the first one, although I admit it might be an idiosyncratic (moronic?) idea. On the second one, I have at least some help in all of the side suits, and it looks like a good hand for nt. On the first one, I am wide open in hearts, and have a bit more concentration.

Out of curiousity, what would I have bid with 6-7 diamonds, 17-18 points and exactly 3 spades?
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#3 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 23:03

I might consider opening the second hand 1NT. How do you show a hand with 3-card spade support and otherwise about the same type of hand?
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Posted 2010-July-08, 23:07

I would bid 2NT on both if those are my only choices, but honestly I think the first one is too good.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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Posted 2010-July-08, 23:18

peachy, on Jul 9 2010, 12:03 AM, said:

I might consider opening the second hand 1NT. How do you show a hand with 3-card spade support and otherwise about the same type of hand?

I made that stipulation so people who use 3♦ jump rebids to show 3 card spade support couldn't take the easy 2NT way out. BTW, my jump to 3♦ on this auction promises 3 card spade support.... so I fall into that group.
--Ben--

#6 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 23:32

No poll option for "I can see either 3D or 2NT on the 2nd hand, but the 1st is too strong for either of those"? I suppose I am endplayed into an offshape 3C.
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Posted 2010-July-08, 23:59

Siegmund, on Jul 9 2010, 12:32 AM, said:

No poll option for "I can see either 3D or 2NT on the 2nd hand, but the 1st is too strong for either of those"? I suppose I am endplayed into an offshape 3C.

I added your choice to the poll.. but thanks for responding as you comments already say you will not treat them the same, which is the info I am after.
--Ben--

#8 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 00:07

3♣ on the first (though I might well have opened 2NT), 2NT on the second.
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#9 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 01:28

I'd treat both hands as balanced, but the first one is too good for 1♦..2NT, so I'd anticipate the problem by opening 2NT. On the second, I'd open 1♦ and rebid 2NT.

If the first hand were a bit weaker, I'd open 1♦ and rebid 2NT, notwithstanding the low doubleton heart.
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#10 User is offline   Lobowolf 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 01:33

Put me down for treating them differently, also. Whatever the line is, they're on opposites sides of it. Treating them the same means underbidding #1 or overbidding #2. 3♣ seems like a necessary evil on the first one.
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#11 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 01:40

I am not a fan of opening hand 1 2N anymore though I did it basically my whole life,and I would still do it at MP but I think at imps 1D then 3C is fine. It will probably lead to better auctions, better rightsiding, better slam bidding, etc with a loss on information leakage.

After opening 1D anything other than 3C is terrible, 3D and 2N are both not game forcing!

Obv strong club followed by diamonds would be best, you might even stop in a partial if it's right then :)

Hand 2 is a no brainer 1D then 2N to me.
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#12 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 02:15

Agree that the first one is too strong, and that 2NT seems right on the second. Having opened 1D somehow on the first I'd rebid 3C.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#13 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 07:44

They're both worth what you have agreed to, namely 2NT. Why mess this up? :D
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#14 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 10:31

jdonn, on Jul 9 2010, 12:07 AM, said:

3♣ on the first (though I might well have opened 2NT), 2NT on the second.

me too.
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#15 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 11:23

3♣ on the first for me as I think this good enough to GF. Flip a coin on the 2nd between 2NT or 3♦.

Strongly dislike opening 2NT with the first hand with only 18 HCP and no ♥ stopper and for many pairs, needing methods to find a ♦ slam if that is best, ie too many reasons to not open 2NT and I think by far the better method is to JS into my 3 card ♣ suit.
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#16 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 11:29

jdonn, on Jul 9 2010, 01:07 AM, said:

3♣ on the first (though I might well have opened 2NT), 2NT on the second.

Same, except I would open 2N.
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#17 User is offline   Furlan 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 14:48

2♥ on the first (either a natural reverse or a GF ♦ one-suiter, which is what I would call this hand).
3♦ on the second, natural.
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#18 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 16:37

I like bidding my suits so 1♦ then 3♣ on the 1st one. I'm willing to sacrifice the information leakage in exchange for potentially better slam bidding or I even welcome the opponents to interfere with hearts so they push us from a failing 3NT. The sharp cards and the good suit is just too good to pass up.

On the second one I would rebid 2NT.
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