[Hanoi5]

The Bridge Encyclopedia says:

Quote

The use of a low-level double in certain circumstances as a request for partner to bid an unbid suit

Later it says:

Quote

The doubler should seldom ignore the requirement of at least three cards in each unbid suit unless his hand contains at least 17 high-card points

Truth be told, reading more in the article it says that BWS 2001 reached an experts consensus that doubling and then bidding the suit just over the one partner showed is not a sign of strength but of not quite right a shape.

But again, who started this? When? Is it now considered cannon?

[Siegmund]

Is there also an entry in the Encyclopedia for "Equal-level conversion"?

I would not call it standard, but it's a reasonably common agreement among the good players in my corner of the world. It could very well be part of BWS now (I don't have BWS system notes handy.)

Offshape weak doubles when not playing ELC remain common beginner's errors today just like they were in the 1920s.

[Hanoi5]

Siegmund, on Jun 29 2010, 04:53 PM, said:

Offshape weak doubles when not playing ELC remain common beginner's errors today just like they were in the 1920s.

Exactly. You know how hard it is to explain TOX's to beginners and then having them see ELC by expert players?

[ggwhiz]

Quote

Is it now considered cannon?

Ummm, nope.

For myself and most other local pairs, this "equal level conversion" not promising extras only occurs when you double 1♥ or 1♠ and convert a ♣ response to ♦'s.

In other words, we double 1♠ with 2-4-5-2 shape and bid ♦ over clubs without extras but NO WAY do we double with 2-4-2-5 shape and pull a ♦ response to ??? ♥?

[blackshoe]

I don't think the second of those examples is ELC, gg, since partner will have to go up a level to bid clubs.

[aguahombre]

right. ELC applies when a major is doubled with the other major and diamonds, intending to convert if partner bids clubs. Equal level means same level after advancer has taken out the double.

[nigel_k]

Hanoi5, on Jun 30 2010, 09:43 AM, said:

Is it now considered cannon?

No it's not and the word you're looking for is 'canon'.

But I can think of several other sentences that do use the words 'ELC' and 'cannon'.

[blackshoe]

It could just as well apply if you double clubs holding both majors. Particularly if you don't play Michaels.

[aguahombre]

What is turning me off ELC in favor of overcalls (with, say 4-6 in the two suits) is that partner's level of competition will often be based on an assumed big fit which isn't there. Same might have happened if I doubled, rather than overcalled, with the North hand in this thread --- even though ELC does not apply to that hand.

[blackshoe]

It helps to play conventions with partners who are on the same page you are.

[aguahombre]

was talking about pard's expectation at the point I double, not after I convert at the equal level. Being on the same page is too late; the page has already turned.

[paulg]

I, and I'm sure everyone who was there, remember David Burn's lecture on takeout doubles at the Summer Congress in Brighton, probably ten years ago or more now.

He was addressing the 'British disease' of needing 5-card support for the unbid suits before you made a takeout double, something that he attributed to the writings of certain experts of the older generation.

He contrasted it with the Italian approach, where the double tended to promise little more than opening values, and the European approach where double tended to promise values with support for all unbid majors.

In particular, he told of how the Swedes are taught that when they hold opening values with four spades, and the hand on your right opens one heart, then you put the double card on the table. It was thought that their babies did this before learning to walk.

With the values for opening bids dropping drastically, getting into the auction quickly is becoming more important and people are doubling now with hands that used to be thought unsuitable. I would say this is 'expert' standard in Europe now and is independent on whether they play equal-level conversion or not.

However it has done little to resolve the debate over whether to double or overcall when holding 5-4 majors

[helene_t]

The OP wasn't really about ELC, was it?

In the very old days, a t/o double was limited and a strong hand would start with a cuebid. I suppose that in that (outdated) style, double followed by a change of suit would show two places to play. I.e. "any level conversion", not just "equal level conversion".

My guess would be that ELC is a more recent invention that the standard meaning of t/o doubles. I could be wrong of course.

[pooltuna]

Hanoi5, on Jun 29 2010, 03:43 PM, said:

The Bridge Encyclopedia says:

Quote

The use of a low-level double in certain circumstances as a request for partner to bid an unbid suit

Later it says:

Quote

The doubler should seldom ignore the requirement of at least three cards in each unbid suit unless his hand contains at least 17 high-card points

Truth be told, reading more in the article it says that BWS 2001 reached an experts consensus that doubling and then bidding the suit just over the one partner showed is not a sign of strength but of not quite right a shape.

But again, who started this? When? Is it now considered cannon?

You haven't suffered until you have experienced the following

Scoring: XIMP

Auction
1♥ X 2♦ 2♥
all pass

---

Even better is that this is an online BBO tournament and early departures are frowned on (consequently I never leave & suffer thru to the end)

[Dirk Kuijt]

There was also a vigorous discussion on these forums about this sequence:

1C-(1S)-X-P
2D

BWS 2001 says that this can be a minimum. I think I'm right in saying that the consensus on this board in 2010 is that the negative double only shows hearts, and, consequently, 2D is a reverse showing substantial extra values.

That is a different kind of TOX that don't promise support.