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Support with support? Is it going too low?

#1 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2010-May-21, 17:07

Both red, you hold:

♠Tx
♥T9x
♦97xxx
♣Kxx

Pa-Pa-1♥-2♦
Pa-???

Why or why not?

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#2 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-May-21, 20:24

Hanoi5, on May 21 2010, 06:07 PM, said:

Both red, you hold:

♠Tx
♥T9x
♦97xxx
♣Kxx

Pa-Pa-1♥-2♦
Pa-???

Why or why not?

Why is easy. They may not yet have found a good fit and bidding over 3+ ♦ will make it harder for them to find it albeit they know you have a fit so they probably do. I suspect the most dangerous risk is that partner will expect more from your hand than you have.
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-May-21, 21:00

4♦ is not minorwood, unless I cue first. Partner will suspect I have crap, because I always do. Since 2♦ was probably six of them, I am still not law-abiding, but sheesh --4 seems like enough.
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#4 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2010-May-21, 21:08

Hanoi5, on May 21 2010, 06:07 PM, said:

Both red, you hold:

♠Tx
♥T9x
♦97xxx
♣Kxx

Pa-Pa-1♥-2♦
Pa-???

Why or why not?

nonexpert pass........

I understand I am letting the opp rebid at a low level.....I give up on trying to steal the hand..

If forced to bid...I would bid 5d.
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#5 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-May-21, 22:28

3D
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#6 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 01:11

3½♦
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

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#7 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 02:17

I might try 4♦ if nonvul. Here it's too high for me.
I bid 3♦. I have pretty good hand and good partner won't double them in partscore "because I promised something by raising".
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 05:33

Partner may still have a strong hand and we have a huge fit. Passing would be a very poor choice imo. 3♦ is just about right, you just say something but don't screw up any possible continuation from your partner.
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#9 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 05:48

Last time I raised an overcall to the three-level with five-card support it went for 800. I'm not sure that that tells us anything useful about this hand - I just wanted to share.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 05:51

I can live with pass and 4♦, 3♦ is plain wrong, non jump raises are constructive.

the flat shape leans towards pass for me.
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#11 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 05:55

3D is obvious, and I play 4D is plain wrong at V because it's mixed.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#12 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 07:22

Fluffy, on May 22 2010, 01:51 PM, said:

I can live with pass and 4♦, 3♦ is plain wrong, non jump raises are constructive.

the flat shape leans towards pass for me.

3♦ preemptive for me.
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#13 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 09:04

gnasher, on May 22 2010, 06:48 AM, said:

Last time I raised an overcall to the three-level with five-card support it went for 800. I'm not sure that that tells us anything useful about this hand - I just wanted to share.

heh I could be convinced to pass if our K was a Q and a J but with a king I think our hand is too good.
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#14 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 12:04

Quote

I can live with pass and 4♦, 3♦ is plain wrong, non jump raises are constructive.


It depends how you define constructive. We have decent hand and 3D is going to make more often than not. If you mean "promising defensive values" I know it's common understanding but I think it's just plain wrong.
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#15 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 12:39

bluecalm, on May 22 2010, 12:04 PM, said:

It depends how you define constructive. We have decent hand and 3D is going to make more often than not. If you mean "promising defensive values" I know it's common understanding but I think it's just plain wrong.

This sounds good, and seems to suggest we have to pass with the given hand. Even though 3♦ would not promise defensive values, I don't think when partner doubles further competition ---or chooses to pass or to bid again (whatever) --he will be expecting this many diamonds and this weak hand. Do I have to over-ride partner's next action or just live with it?
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#16 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 12:51

nvm
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#17 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2010-May-22, 16:09

Does 17+ or 4+DT start T/O dbl first? Thus topping partner's overcall. Pass, no offense, bal
Or unlimited up if distributional( say 5530,6430) to get one suit in cheaply with 2nd +strong later? Thus fit asking 1st. Now 4D appeals, fit found, how high, partner?
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#18 User is offline   gszeszycki 

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Posted 2010-May-23, 11:01

The quandary presented by this hand are three fold---
1. P hand is WAY WORSE (defensivly) than they have any reason to believe
2. We have almost no SHAPE for a dramatic raise with our DRECK
3. If we choose the dramatic raise route (4d) we clue opps in to the value of partners shortness.

I would PASS----think of it this way any time opener is SHORT in dia they would reopen with an X no matter what we did---say they held AKx KQTxx x KQJx
no matter if we pass bid 3d or 4d opener will X BUT give opener the following hand
AK KQTxx xxx KQJ same 19 count but now they have to worry about a bunch of dia losers on top of possible spade bids from p they very easily might decide to pass if we were to bid 3d or 4d however they have an EASY X because they KNOW p has a weakish highly distributional hand (or be able to support hearts and ruff dia with short suit) and is VERY short in dia.

The above does not apply vs big club auctions where opener max is 15 vs 19 in sayc-2/1.Then I would bid 4d.
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#19 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2010-May-25, 05:01

I would always raise. 3♦. Don't care if I'm a little short in high cards. 4♦ is a too aggressive without more playing strength.
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