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Choice of strain

#1 User is offline   Coelacanth 

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Posted 2010-May-14, 11:47

Scoring: IMP


Rightly or wrongly you open this hand 1♦ in first chair. Opponents are silent.

Partner responds 1♥. You have some choices at this point but I bid what I thought was a normal (?) 1♠.

Partner bids 2NT. You have not discussed this sequence specifically but you can probably expect 11-12 balanced with fewer than 4 spades, not more than 4 hearts, and some semblance of a club stopper.

And now?

See hidden text below for my choice and the next decision I had to make.

Spoiler

Brian Weikle
I say what it occurs to me to say when I think I hear people say things; more, I cannot say.
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#2 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-May-14, 12:26

Coelacanth, on May 14 2010, 11:47 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP


Rightly or wrongly you open this hand 1♦ in first chair. Opponents are silent.

Partner responds 1♥. You have some choices at this point but I bid what I thought was a normal (?) 1♠.

Partner bids 2NT. You have not discussed this sequence specifically but you can probably expect 11-12 balanced with fewer than 4 spades, not more than 4 hearts, and some semblance of a club stopper.

And now?

See hidden text below for my choice and the next decision I had to make.

Spoiler

1) Rightly open 1♦
2) Completely normal 1♠
3) I would bid 3♥. I don't understand why you expect not more than 4♥; partner could definitely have 5.

And now
Spoiler

OK
bed
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#3 User is offline   karlson 

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Posted 2010-May-14, 14:55

1. I think it should be normal to raise to 2h with this shape and a minimum.

2. If I actually knew partner had less than 5 hearts, I would pass. If partner could have 5, I think you have to bid 3h now.

3. After 3s, I would bid 4s, sounds like my hand is terrible for 3n if partner can't bid it now.
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#4 User is offline   Dirk Kuijt 

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Posted 2010-May-14, 23:08

You are probably going down after this start, but I would bid 4♥. At least you are taking the force in the short hand, unlike playing in 4♠.

Unfortunately, you are minimum, and it sounds like partner is also. I admit that I don't understand why partner is supposed to hold only 4 hearts. It seems to me that

xxx
Axxxx
Jx
AQx

(and several variations including 2-5-3-3)

is a perfectly normal 2NT bid. If partner holds the HJ as well, or even instead of the ♦J, then you certainly want to play in hearts.

codo said:

It is a fact that most people here write as if their opinion is a dogmatic fact.

eugene hung said:

My opinion is that this ought to win the award for best self-referential quote of the new year.
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#5 User is offline   MarkDean 

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Posted 2010-May-14, 23:35

Despite it being a fairly typical hand shape, I have always had trouble with 43(51) minimums. Most (including me) play that (opps silent) 1m - 1H - 1S - 1NT/2m - 2H shows extras. That leaves you with two options: never show your hearts, or sometimes play in 2H in your 43 fit instead of 2S in your 44. I usually raise, and live with the losses.

In the auction in the OP, I would bid 3♥ because if partner has 5 hearts we are likely to make game. I would then bid 4♥ over 3♠ - at least we can ruff with the short trump hand.
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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-May-15, 01:58

Moving after 2NT commits to game (see related thread). Responder might have 5 hearts, but is slightly more likely to have 4 hearts and 5+ clubs (because of opener's shortness there).

Of course it looks like an opening 1♦bid.
Of course it is a 1♠ rebid. No reason responder could not have been 4-4 in the majors.
I choose Pass of 2NT, just like I would have passed 1NT.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-May-15, 02:53

MarkDean, on May 15 2010, 06:35 AM, said:

Despite it being a fairly typical hand shape, I have always had trouble with 43(51) minimums. Most (including me) play that (opps silent) 1m - 1H - 1S - 1NT/2m - 2H shows extras.

What most people do isn't always best. In three of the four sequences opener has a fourth-suit bid available, so you can play, for example:

1♣-1♥
1♠-1NT
2♥ = 4315 minimum

1♣-1♥
1♠-1NT
2♦ = 4315 with extras (and possibly other good hands that don't fit in elsewhere)
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-May-15, 04:42

aguahombre, on May 15 2010, 09:58 AM, said:

Moving after 2NT commits to game (see related thread). Responder might have 5 hearts, but is slightly more likely to have 4 hearts and 5+ clubs (because of opener's shortness there).

Of course it looks like an opening 1♦bid.
Of course it is a 1♠ rebid. No reason responder could not have been 4-4 in the majors.
I choose Pass of 2NT, just like I would have passed 1NT.

Seems obviously simple.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


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#9 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2010-May-15, 08:06

FWIW, I was asked recently to reconsider four-suit-forcing sequences, to assess my view of what makes the most sense in the long run. Meaning, how to play 4SF, depending on the sequence.

After this review, I came to a conclusion that fourth suit should be GF when the fourth suit call is 2♥ or higher.

When the fourth suit is two of a minor, however, I believe that a better structure exists, namely:

Relay = weak without 3-piece support for Responder's major
Two of Responder's major = weak with 3-piece support for Responder's major
2NT = maximum with 3-piece support for Responder's major
Other = maximum without 3-piece support for Responder's major, logical

The "3-piece" could be 2-piece perhaps, or perhaps in some sequences (like with minimums).

This exact hand pattern was one of the concerns. I believe that this approach would work better in the long run. There might be even better, but this seems to make sense.

If using this approach, the 2NT call yields a clear pass from opener. If, however, Responder had bid 2♣, Opener could bid 2♥ to show a minimum with 3-piece (2-piece?) support. With a max, and 3-piece, he'd bid 2NT. With any non-fir minimum, the relay 2♦. 2♠ would be a natural maximum (GF), as would 3♣, 3♦, etc.
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