[el mister]

Playing Acol - After partners overcall, should I show spades here (1♠). or limit the hand with 1NT? Or something else?

Scoring: IMP

1♦, 1♥, P, ?

---

[helene_t]

I would pass. I don't think I necessarily have to act with a non-exiting 8-count opposite an overcall.

If I were to bid I think 1♠ and 1NT are both OK, I have no strong opinion either way. A slight preference for 1♠ as it's great if p has four of them. I assume p will usually raise with 3-card support. If it is not your style to raise with 3-card support here then of course 1♠ is much better than 1NT.

[655321]

1NT

I think passing is bad. I would bid 1NT because we have a balanced 8 count with ATx in their suit. If 4♠ is on, partner needs a very good hand and should be able to bid spades himself.

[nigel_k]

I'd prefer 1♠ then 1NT then pass, but any of those is ok. One thing you will notice, both at the table and in these forums, is that people disagree on very basic sequences after overcalls and takeout doubles.

Also there is no such thing as playing Acol when opponents open.

[the hog]

Iwould bid 1S here. Second choice would be pass, and I wouldn't quibble with that. 1NT doesn't rate a mention opposite a light overcall. You are about a king shy for that bid.

[helene_t]

nigel_k, on May 10 2010, 10:48 AM, said:

Also there is no such thing as playing Acol when opponents open.

True.

There is probably a correlation between playing Acol and having a low upper limit on overcalls, rarely overcalling with more than 15 points, since that style is popular among English club players.

But one shouldn't take such things for granted.

[el mister]

Thanks. How do you know it's a light overcall The_Hog? Couldn't it be decent?

Partner held ♠T73, ♥AKQ75, ♦ 95, ♣ A98 for her bid.

[655321]

El mister, Hog is in error when he supposes that you need an extra King to bid 1NT in response to partner's overcall. 1NT to me shows something like 8-11 HCP.

[helene_t]

Doesn't sound right to have to bid 2NT with 12 points if partner can have as little as 5 points as some here on this forum. Do we play a different range depending on vulnerability? Or do we make a cuebid with 12 points and xx in partner's suit?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

first question to answer:

Is a 1S response forcing?

I dont know, what is standard, but I learned to play Bridge in Acol land,
and 1S was noforcing.
If 1S is nonforcing, 1S should be based on a 5carder, hence 1S would
be no option.
If you play 1S as forcing, than you obviously have the hand for 1S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: You should try to find a bid, holding 9HCP, espesially, if p is a unpassed
hand.

[the hog]

el mister, on May 10 2010, 05:27 PM, said:

Thanks. How do you know it's a light overcall The_Hog? Couldn't it be decent?

Partner held ♠T73, ♥AKQ75, ♦ 95, ♣ A98 for her bid.

I didn't say it was, but opposite an overcall, 1NT should show about 10-12.
I would certainly overcall on xx KJTxx Kxxx xx
Do you want to bid 1NT on your tat opposite that hand?

Numerically one:
"1NT to me shows something like 8-11 HCP."

To YOU, not to ME. So how can you say I am "in error"? You probably wouldn't overcall on my example hand above. Many would!

[655321]

The_Hog, on May 11 2010, 01:10 AM, said:

I would certainly overcall on xx KJTxx Kxxx xx
Do you want to bid 1NT on your tat opposite that hand?

Numerically one:
"1NT to me shows something like 8-11 HCP."

To YOU, not to ME. So how can you say I am "in error"? You probably wouldn't overcall on my example hand above. Many would!

Well, I say 'to me' because it is a kind of fuzzy range, I don't know exactly what the range is, probably there are good 7 counts worth 1NT, but as a ballpark figure, 8-11 seems normal to me. But whatever the exact range, waiting until you have 10HCP to respond to partner's overcall is seriously losing bridge. I suggest you will score a lot of 170s this way.

And yes, I would overcall 1♥ on your example hand, not sure why you think I wouldn't.

[the hog]

655321, on May 11 2010, 12:32 PM, said:

The_Hog, on May 11 2010, 01:10 AM, said:

I would certainly overcall on xx KJTxx Kxxx xx
Do you want to bid 1NT on your tat opposite that hand?

Numerically one:
"1NT to me shows something like 8-11 HCP."

To YOU, not to ME. So how can you say I am "in error"? You probably wouldn't overcall on my example hand above. Many would!

Well, I say 'to me' because it is a kind of fuzzy range, I don't know exactly what the range is, probably there are good 7 counts worth 1NT, but as a ballpark figure, 8-11 seems normal to me. But whatever the exact range, waiting until you have 10HCP to respond to partner's overcall is seriously losing bridge. I suggest you will score a lot of 170s this way.

And yes, I would overcall 1♥ on your example hand, not sure why you think I wouldn't.

Just curious, because this hand would not play that well opposite the 1NT example.

[mcphee]

I would never consider passing 1H. Both 1S and 1NT are an option, 1NT loses out to the possible 4-4S fit, and 1S risks 2S facing 3 trumps. I know I would be pleased to see partner raise my 1S to 3S. So 1S it is for me.

The hogs 1NT range of 10-12 is not what most would expect. The example o/c hand is as close to pass as it is to 1H, who should quibble when the suit is ok. Sort of the "defendants o/c", I was expecting to defend and wanted a H lead.

[kgr]

Our style is rather light overcalls, and DBL first with extra's (e.g 17+).
I would Pass.
As the Hog, 1NT is stronger for me and 1♠ is forcing.
(We also play that 2♦ shows the majors,can be 4/4 with a good hand, the risk of passing here is low for us)

[gszeszycki]

PASS i have basically one entry to my hand and can contribute 2 tricks on a
good day----It is difficult to imagine too many hands where p will take EIGHT more tricks with the ability to finesse ONCE. Bidding with this collection seems to increase the probability of negative score vs any chance of a reward. I will admit however that with Axxx xx Axx xxxx i would bid 1s because i can imagine a pretty large number of hands where TWO finesses might allow 10 tricks to be made

imagine 1h overcall looking something like xx AKxxxx xx AQJ opposite the posted hand you lose 2s 1h 1d and almost assuredly 1c opposite the 2 ace hand the ability to finesse TWICE means 1s 1h 1d and NO CLUBS as long as club K cooperates. Note that even adding a 7th heart to overcaller (assuming hearts break 22) still makes GAME VERY unlikely opposite the posted hand.

[Jlall]

Pass or 1N are both fine imo.

We are white and don't have game often at all, meanwhile are sometimes in trouble if we bid 1N, sometimes we'll get too high when partner invites (which will be more frequent than partner GF), and often 1H will be better than 1N. We also don't really mind them bidding something as we have good defense for all suits.

Red I would def bid 1N.

Sorry I didn't notice this is the beginner forum, I agree with 655321 that 1N is 8-11 and may not have a stopper. I also think 1S shows 5 except in very rare situations.

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on May 12 2010, 02:32 PM, said:

Pass or 1N are both fine imo.

We are white and don't have game often at all, meanwhile are sometimes in trouble if we bid 1N, sometimes we'll get too high when partner invites (which will be more frequent than partner GF), and often 1H will be better than 1N. We also don't really mind them bidding something as we have good defense for all suits.

Red I would def bid 1N.

Sorry I didn't notice this is the beginner forum, I agree with 655321 that 1N is 8-11 and may not have a stopper. I also think 1S shows 5 except in very rare situations.

So are we Xing now rather than bidding 1♥ with

---

?

[Jlall]

We are?

[Rodney26]

pooltuna, on May 12 2010, 02:55 PM, said:

Jlall, on May 12 2010, 02:32 PM, said:

Pass or 1N are both fine imo.

We are white and don't have game often at all, meanwhile are sometimes in trouble if we bid 1N, sometimes we'll get too high when partner invites (which will be more frequent than partner GF), and often 1H will be better than 1N. We also don't really mind them bidding something as we have good defense for all suits.

Red I would def bid 1N.

Sorry I didn't notice this is the beginner forum, I agree with 655321 that 1N is 8-11 and may not have a stopper. I also think 1S shows 5 except in very rare situations.

So are we Xing now rather than bidding 1♥ with

---

?

Even on this very careful construction, the opps are probably +110 in diamonds and +100 defending 1NT. It is really hard for them to judge that selling out might be right because 2S is better than 1NT, which I think is your point. When partner has more diamonds and fewer spades and they can't compete, 1NT is a bigger winner as well.

I think players chase 4-4 fits way too frequently when it is the best the fit will be (such as here, since 1H overcaller will pretty much never have 5 spades). I think 1S should show 5 by advancer; 4 is possible but not these 4.