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In 2/1 GF system where repeat of responder suit is forcing ( for one more round), is 4D forcing in the following auction ?-- 1S-2D, 2H-3D, 3H-4D.
Also I play that 2/1 GF means that we will attempt to get to 3M or 4Maj but not necessarily 5-minor, is this main stream?
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2/1 Game Force Forcing to what?
#2
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Posted 2010-April-28, 09:51
2/1 Game Force = forcing to game
Some people play 2/1 GF 'unless suit rebid' so then 3D would be NF. That's not really mainstream.
Some people play 2/1 GF 'unless suit rebid' so then 3D would be NF. That's not really mainstream.
Kevin Fay
#3
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Posted 2010-April-28, 10:06
The question apparently is whether 2/1 people can stop in 4m (not 3m). Yes, some can, on some auctions. Others try to avoid the problem with different agreements on what a forcing NT's strength is when followed by 3m.
Definitely something to discuss with partner.
Definitely something to discuss with partner.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#4
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Posted 2010-April-28, 10:39
My question was if 3D was forcing, then is 4D still Forcing?
1S--2D(2/1 GF)
2H--3D ( Forcing)
3H--4D----is this still FORCING?
1S--2D(2/1 GF)
2H--3D ( Forcing)
3H--4D----is this still FORCING?
#5
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Posted 2010-April-28, 11:31
I haven't discussed this exact sequence but at the table I would treat it as non-forcing. I like the meta agreement that our side can get out in four of a minor if there is no fit.
#6
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Posted 2010-April-28, 11:37
manig, on Apr 28 2010, 10:39 AM, said:
My question was if 3D was forcing, then is 4D still Forcing?
1S--2D(2/1 GF)
2H--3D ( Forcing)
3H--4D----is this still FORCING?
1S--2D(2/1 GF)
2H--3D ( Forcing)
3H--4D----is this still FORCING?
Yes.
OK
bed
bed
#7
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Posted 2010-April-28, 12:16
If you play 2/1 GAME FORCING, then you must reach game.
However, the partnership can define "Game" for this purpose as 3NT or the 4 level. If you define "Game" as 3NT or the 4 level, then 4♦ can be passed.
Of course, if Game means Game (3NT, 4 of a major, 5 of a minor), then 4♦ is forcing.
Many years ago I attempted to learn Ultimate Club, the strong club relay system played by Rubin, Becker and Granovetter. One concept used in the text of their system was "qgame," which was defined as 3NT or the 4 level in any suit. Many sequences were forcing to qgame, not to game. This is the same idea that I have set forth above, defining "game" to be 3NT or the 4 level.
However, the partnership can define "Game" for this purpose as 3NT or the 4 level. If you define "Game" as 3NT or the 4 level, then 4♦ can be passed.
Of course, if Game means Game (3NT, 4 of a major, 5 of a minor), then 4♦ is forcing.
Many years ago I attempted to learn Ultimate Club, the strong club relay system played by Rubin, Becker and Granovetter. One concept used in the text of their system was "qgame," which was defined as 3NT or the 4 level in any suit. Many sequences were forcing to qgame, not to game. This is the same idea that I have set forth above, defining "game" to be 3NT or the 4 level.
#8
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Posted 2010-April-28, 12:53
I don't play in 4 of a minor. It's against my religion.
Kevin Fay
#9
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Posted 2010-April-28, 13:25
I usually only play in 4 of a minor when I was asking for key cards 
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#10
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Posted 2010-April-28, 14:25
If 3♦ was forcing, then so is 4♦, unless you have an explicit agreement to the contrary.
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#11
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Posted 2010-April-28, 14:29
ArtK78, on Apr 28 2010, 07:16 PM, said:
Many years ago I attempted to learn Ultimate Club, the strong club relay system played by Rubin, Becker and Granovetter. One concept used in the text of their system was "qgame," which was defined as 3NT or the 4 level in any suit. Many sequences were forcing to qgame, not to game.
I wonder why they didn't just say "forcing to 3NT".
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
London UK
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