[h2osmom]

Scoring: IMP

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north opened this hand 1h, south bid 1s, north 1n. We had agreed on 2 way nmf, so I bid 2d. North rebid 2n. Now I bid 3d. North bid 3s. What should I do now? I chose 4h. I thought that would be the best game as I didnt want to ruff clubs with my long lousy suit. Partner wasn't certain that 4h was an offer to play; he thought I might be looking for a slam. What could I have done different/better? I was south. Thank you.

[mike777]

Prefer 2h after 2d not 2nt

Prefer 3d(nat and gf) not 2d.

This way you can tell pard you are 5-5 not 5-4.

1h=1s
1nt=3d!


btw some might not open 1h with north hand but that is another discussion.

[jdonn]

Over 3♠ why not bid 4♦? Bypassing 3NT must be right if partner didn't bid it and you haven't shown your 5th diamond of your very good suit yet. But the 4♥ bid is definitely natural and an offer to play on a doubleton so it's not far wrong.

Yes I could have bid 3♦ over 1NT to show this but maybe you either didn't have that agreement or didn't know your agreement.

[h2osmom]

We were playing 2 way nmf; I thought that 3d over 1n would be a hand with invitational values and not forcing. Am I wrong?

[mike777]

h2osmom, on Apr 27 2010, 05:16 PM, said:

We were playing 2 way nmf;  I thought that 3d over 1n would be a hand with invitational values and not forcing.  Am I wrong?

i play where all invite hands with diamonds go through 2c.....do you play 2c forces 2d?

If not I would still start all invite hands through 2c


1h=1s
1nt=2c
etc=3d invite...

in practice this sequence will be rare....since the focus is on majors or nt.

[h2osmom]

that's right, I remembered that for 3M bids, no idea why I didn't consider it for 3d.

[Mbodell]

h2osmom, on Apr 27 2010, 02:16 PM, said:

We were playing 2 way nmf; I thought that 3d over 1n would be a hand with invitational values and not forcing. Am I wrong?

Yes (at least as I'm familiar).

I think 3♦/1nt is the right bid, but 2♦...3♦...4♦ is ok too.

But 4♥ is an ok place to land, and partner should have passed your 4♥.

[mikeh]

I wouldn't open 1♥. This is a situation that I think is close but clear.

I prefer that over 1N, a jump to 3♦ shows a pure 5-5 or better hand with some slam interest, so this S hand doesn't qualify....make it AKxxx xx AKQxx x and it would be perfect....opposite a working 13 count, such as Qxx AKxxx xxx Ax and we're off to the races.

As it is, I really dislike 2N: doesn't 2♥ look like a more accurate description, while keeping the bidding lower? When of two bids one is more descriptive AND preserves space, the other bid has to be rejected.

Funnily enough, the 2N actually should have worked: opener absolutely has to own up to that heart suit at some stage....why not over 3♦? 1N already promised xx in spades, and the actual holding isn't really much better. Now S has the world's easiest 4♥ call and opener passes, happy.

[Bende]

When we play 2 way nmf this is how we do it

1♥ - 1♠; 1NT - 3♦ = 4♠-5+♦ invitational
1♥ - 1♠; 1NT - 2♣; 2♦ - 3♦ = 5♠-5♦, invitational

[Free]

Wow apparently there are a lot of ways to play 2-way nmf! I play:
1♥-1♠-2♣-2♦-3m = INV 4♠ 5+m
1♥-1♠-2NT-3♣-3♦ = GF 5-5 (2NT is puppet to 3♣)
1♥-1♠-3♦ = INV 5-5
1♥-1♠-2♦ denies any 5-5

[whereagles]

1♥ 1♠
1NT 3♦

now it depends. If North is inspired, he'll will bid 3♥ showing good hearts and club worries.

But most of the time he'll bid 3NT and that's it.

[MFA]

I'm used to playing 1♥-1♠-1NT-3♦ as invitational.

I don't understand north's bidding. He has such a strong heart suit but he does all that he can not to bid it again?!

[gwnn]

I have a very simple rule: all jumps in new suits to the 3 level are GF and 5-5, i.e.

1m-1M
1N-3om

1m-1H
1S-3om

and everything else that looks similar. simple and not far from optimal.

[whereagles]

gwnn, on Apr 28 2010, 11:17 AM, said:

I have a very simple rule: all jumps in new suits to the 3 level are GF and 5-5

I gave that idea a thought once and ended up scrapping it because I defined

1x 1y
1NT 3z = 5y4z GF (with 55 rebid z at the 4 level)

1x 1y
1NT 2♣ (relay)
any 3z = 4y4z

The point is to be able to dig out a side 4-4 fit in the minors in slammish cases. It gets more difficult for me to get the 55s right, though.

[gwnn]

It's just that I like game before slam and when I'm 5-5 we may not like to play in 3NT even if we are quite far from slam values. I agree though that it's probably not the best on every auction.

[mcphee]

I think N could have helped more. As 2D is some GF N might have repeated H rather than 2N. Having elected to bid 2N 3D suggests a 5 card or 6-4 hand type and now perhaps N could have repeated H, but even over 3S south should continue with 4D knowing they are facing just 2S. It is not that hard to see slam possibilities. As it happens game is plenty N holding a minimum hand with no real help in our suits. These hands are not so easy to judge and the auction here made it difficult to reach 4H as a possible strain. Seems 4H and 5D depend on finding the K H onside.

[jdonn]

mikeh, on Apr 27 2010, 06:03 PM, said:

I prefer that over 1N, a jump to 3♦ shows a pure 5-5 or better hand with some slam interest, so this S hand doesn't qualify....make it AKxxx xx AKQxx x and it would be perfect....

I thought pure meant all the values in those two suits. I think if you are waiting for the type of hand you are waiting for then you are not getting enough mileage out of the jump and are putting too many hands into 2♦ then 3♦. Just IMO.