[ONEferBRID]

MarkDean, on Apr 23 2010, 10:54 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 23 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

bd71, on Apr 23 2010, 08:31 PM, said:

OK, 2nd part of the question...

Bidding goes 1H-1N-2H.  Now what do you bid?

2S

I thought that showed the minors?

The latest post on this was by Richard Pavlicek ( rec.games.bridge ) back in January :

Axx          x
AJ76xx    x
K          QJxxx
KJx      AQTxxx


1H 1NT (forcing)
2H 2S! = showing the minors

[rbforster]

bd71, on Apr 23 2010, 10:31 PM, said:

Bidding goes 1H-1N-2H. Now what do you bid?

Well given I was willing to 2/1 GF with this, I guess I bid 4♥. If you mean I'm forced to treat this as an invitational hand and not upgrade for the 8+ fit, I guess 3♥ is normal (unless you have special methods for the "impossible" 2♠).

[bluecalm]

In casual partnership I bid 2♣. It simplify things and prevent disasters caused by difference in style (like 2NT on 25hcp or problems after jump auction from opener). I feel it's much more important than small EV I am giving away by playing some not very good 3NT's.
I would also bid 2♣ if I play systems with standard openings (not every 11, some 10's like in prec).

If it goes:

1♥ 1NT
2♥

I bid 4♥. I don't consider other options as serious contenders.

I know simuls don't tell much in such situations but if partner has exactly 11hcp and shape no better than 6-4 the game will make 53% of cases.

I hate playing with people who invite on such hands btw. I prefer to bid straightforwardly and be where most of the field is if it's close anyway (not that I think it's close here).

[bluecalm]

Quote

The latest post on this was by Richard Pavlicek ( rec.games.bridge ) back in January :

Axx          x
AJ76xx    x
K          QJxxx
KJx      AQTxxx


1H 1NT (forcing)
2H 2S! = showing the minors

I am familiar with this treatment. I saw it in some old polish bridge newspaper from back in 70' or something like that

[jdonn]

ONEferBRID, on Apr 24 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

MarkDean, on Apr 23 2010, 10:54 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 23 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

bd71, on Apr 23 2010, 08:31 PM, said:

OK, 2nd part of the question...

Bidding goes 1H-1N-2H.  Now what do you bid?

2S

I thought that showed the minors?

The latest post on this was by Richard Pavlicek ( rec.games.bridge ) back in January :

Axx          x
AJ76xx    x
K          QJxxx
KJx      AQTxxx


1H 1NT (forcing)
2H 2S! = showing the minors

I don't see how you're much better off showing minors over 2♥ than you are showing clubs (6 instead of 5 partner will think if you show minors).

[bluecalm]

Quote

I don't see how you're much better off showing minors over 2♥ than you are showing clubs (6 instead of 5 partner will think if you show minors).

Hmm ?

If you have xx x AQxxx KTxxxx

and partner has:

Jxxx AKxxx xxx x

It's quite useful to show minors cause if you show clubs you will in 3♣ ?
Or I am missing something ?

[aguahombre]

and why did that opener not rebid 2d? oops --would not have opened at all. Assume you mean AXXX AKXXX XXX X. Automatic 2D rebid after forcing NT.

Edit: too many aces of hearts, also. but couldn't catch everything.

[jdonn]

bluecalm, on Apr 24 2010, 07:05 PM, said:

Quote

I don't see how you're much better off showing minors over 2♥ than you are showing clubs (6 instead of 5 partner will think if you show minors).

Hmm ?

If you have xx x AQxxx KTxxxx

and partner has:

Jxxx AKxxx xxx x

It's quite useful to show minors cause if you show clubs you will in 3♣ ?
Or I am missing something ?

You are missing that I was referring to that specific hand, which supposedly was an example of the benefits of playing 2♠ shows the minors. I don't believe it is since I see no gain over not playing 2♠ shows the minors (meaning you would have to bid 3♣) on that specific hand.

You are also missing that your example is neither an opening bid nor a 2♥ rebid.

[bluecalm]

Quote

You are missing that I was referring to that specific hand, which supposedly was an example of the benefits of playing 2♠ shows the minors.

No. Someone noted that 2♠ should/might/does show the minors because other people suggested 2♠ with this hand hoping it will be understood as something else.

Quote

You are also missing that your example is neither an opening bid nor a 2♥ rebid.

Yeah, lol. This example wasn't good I hope the point is clear though.

[EricK]

I would force to game. There is a risk of getting to high if partner is absolutely minimum, but there is also a risk of staying too low if you simply invite and partner has a little bit more than an absolute minimum.

[655321]

jdonn, on Apr 23 2010, 07:02 PM, said:

655321, on Apr 23 2010, 05:01 PM, said:

I wouldn't bid 1NT with this hand unless I had previously agreed with partner that 1NT could include this sort of hand.

I'm not sure what you mean. The question is whether this particular hand is a balanced invitation, which is the "sort of hand" that everyone who plays 1NT forcing knows can be in 1NT. Personally I bid 1NT but it's close.

Yep, I was trying to say that I wouldn't treat the hand as a balanced invitation, I would treat it as a GF.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I have 10-12 bal., I bid a forcing 1NT, followed by 2NT,
if you think the hand worth a game force, bid 3NT, so the
answer to your question is no.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

bd71, on Apr 23 2010, 10:31 PM, said:

OK, 2nd part of the question...

Bidding goes 1H-1N-2H. Now what do you bid?

Hi,

2NT.

If you are 100% sure, that 2H showes a 6 carder, which would imply,
that p would sometimes bid 2C with only 2 cards (or even with a sindle),
than go ahead and bid 3H.

I dont see any particular reason to upgrade the hand, after I made the
decision to sell it as a 10-12 bal. hand.
2NT has the adv. that p will know about the fit, if he happens to hold a
6 carder, and since p knowes as well, that we are a first time partnership,
there, he will also be aware, that 2H may not promis 6 cards for everyone.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hanp]

I would force to game.

[bluecalm]

Quote

I dont see any particular reason to upgrade the hand, after I made the
decision to sell it as a 10-12 bal. hand.

I think it's not correct reasoning. Just because you didn't have GF opposite minimum opener with 5♥ doesn't mean you don't have GF opposite 6♥. You don't need "upgrade" or whatever. You have guaranteed 23hcp and 6-2 fit. It's automatic game in my book.

[P_Marlowe]

bluecalm, on Apr 26 2010, 11:48 AM, said:

Quote

I dont see any particular reason to upgrade the hand, after I made the
decision to sell it as a 10-12 bal. hand.

I think it's not correct reasoning. Just because you didn't have GF opposite minimum opener with 5♥ doesn't mean you don't have GF opposite 6♥. You don't need "upgrade" or whatever. You have guaranteed 23hcp and 6-2 fit. It's automatic game in my book.

First of all, does 2H showes a 6 carder?

Please assume the given context, which was a first time partnership.
2NT promises 2hearts, i.e p will know, that we have a fit, if he has
6 hearts.

For that matter, the hand is not a particular good 12 count, it is not
bad either, Queens and Jacks are overvalued, Aces undervalues, we
have 2 Acs, 2 Jacks and 1 Queen, which means + and - will even itself
out. So why should I upgrade?

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: The fact that we play MP, which plays no role for my decision, is also
something, which speaks against upgrading, at MP you dont need to be in
every game with a 30-40 success rate.
And since we are green, the same holds even true for IMP scoring.

And 6-2 fits are also not the best fits, one could have.

But in the end, it comes down to the question, what would bug you more,
+1 or -1, I fully understand, if your answer is +1.