[straube]

We're back to using Jacoby 2N for GF with four trump (3C is a LR now)

So what's a good structure when partner is already limited to 10-15?

[straube]

How about...

3C-singleton, no length (5431 or 5521)
.....3H-higher
.....3S-middle
.....3N-lower, 7 QPs
3D-singleton, length (6421 or 6331 or 7321)
.....3S-higher
.....3N-middle
.....4C-lower, 7 QPs
3H-void, no length (5440)
.....3N-higher
.....4C-middle
.....4D-lower 7 QPs
3S-void, length (6430 or 7330)
.....4C-higher
.....4D-middle
.....4H-lower 7 QPs
.....4S-lower 8 QPs
.....4N-lower 9 QPs, first step of dcb
3N-5332 or minimum 5224
4C-5224, max
4D-5242, max
4H-5422, max

[Jlall]

I think it sucks to automatically show your shape. A lot of times if opener just has a min, responder can sign off, so I would strongly recommend playing 3C as a minimum.

Also, your suggested structure puts wayyyyyy too much weight on voids. You have both 3H and 3S dedicated to showing voids. You won't have a void very often, and it hurts all of your other hand types. For instance over your 3N bid you can't even resolve shape, and you are very high with your 5422 bids. You also have no way to show 5-5.

I think having 3C and 3D both dedicated to stiff and not resolving strength at all is also a loss. Obviously later cuebidding can help you, but your range is still going to be incredibly wide with bidding starting at e.g. 3N (1H-2N-3D-3H-3N). If your range is still 10-15 and partner has still not shown much about his hand, it's going to be tough to have good slam auctions and stop in 4 when it's right.

I would put a higher priority on showing right away whether you have a minimum or not, and a higher priority on saving space for likely hand types (singletons, 5422s), and a much lower priority on showing a void or whether your shortness includes 5 or 6 trumps (the latter is not a useful distinction very often when partner has already shown 4+ trumps).

[straube]

I think that's valid criticism. I was hoping not to reinvent the wheel here because I'm sure there are already good continuations for J2N opposite limited hands. I do think knowing whether partner has 5 or 6 has some value because it reduces potential losers in his hand.

[Heidar]

1♥ – 2NT
 |--- 3♣ = Minimum hands
 | |--- 3♦ = Relay
 | | |--- 3♥/♠/NT = Short, using steps (♣,♦ and other major)
 | | | |--- 3♠ = Cue after a 1♥ opening, "Real" after a 1♠ opening
 | | | |--- 3NT = Real, can be used as a ♠ cue after a 3♠ answer over 1♥ opening
 | | |
 | | |--- Cue, no shortness (4♥ = ♠ cue after a 1♥ opening)
 | |
 | |--- 3/4♥ = To play (taken from a 2NT limit+ convention as you can see )
 | |--- 3♦ = Maximum hand without shortness
 | | |--- 3♥/♠/NT = Gives responder a chance to show singletons so opener can better evaluate his balanced hand and avoid open suits (♣,♦ and other major)
 | |--- 3♥/♠/NT = Maximum hand, short, using steps (♣,♦ and other major)
 | |--- Continue as shown above after 3♣ - 3♦ relay
 |
 |--- 4♣/♦ = Two suiters (4♥ shows ♥-♠ two suiter with longer ♥ )



Real mentioned above (as in the convention "real 3NT") = Serious slam interest

[akhare]

3C with most min hands seems be a universally good start...this was suggested by Larry Cohen as well...

[rogerclee]

IMO you must be able to show specific 5422 shape and either min or non-min.

[straube]

3C-minimum with shortness

.....3H-6 cd
..........3N-higher
..........4C-middle
..........4D-lower
..........4H-6322
.....3S-5 cd, singleton
..........4C-higher
..........4D-middle
..........4H-lower
.....3N-6 cd, void
..........4D-higher
..........4H-middle
..........4S-lower
.....4C-5 cd, void higher
.....4D-5 cd, void middle
.....4H-5 cd, void lower

3D-bal, min or max

.....3S-min 5422
..........4C-5M224
..........4D-5M242
..........4H-5M4OM22
.....3N-5332, 11-13
.....4C-5M224, max
.....4D-5M242, max
.....4H-5M4OM22, max

3H-6 cd, max
etc.

[steve2005]

straube, on Apr 14 2010, 01:31 PM, said:

We're back to using Jacoby 2N for GF with four trump  (3C is a LR now)

So what's a good structure when partner is already limited to 10-15?

I would think opposite a limited hand, say 11-15 that you would want up to strength say 15+ to bid Jacoby 2NT. On lesser hands you can just jump to game not missing anything. Other hands you can make a 2/1

I would want to show void raises 4♣/ 4♦ /4♥ and 3NT shows a spade void over hearts

you would show unnamed singletons by bidding 3♠ over 1♥ and bidding 3NT over 1♠, you can easily relay to get the singleton suit

of course you would also use Bergen raises

Over 2NT
3 of new suit would show a singleton
3 of the major would show a good 14+ points with extra length
3NT would show 15 pts balanced
4 of a new suit would show a void
4 of the major would show a minimum hand with no singletons or voids