[InTime]

---

The bidding went:
South...West...North...East
1D.........Pass....1S........2C
?
What is the best bid forward for South?
3S or 4S?
3C = Good Raise in Spades?
or the most important answer will be the next question . . .
4C = Normal splinter or will it show specifically a void in this circumstances?
or will 3C . . . . then 4C shows the void?
Regards

[Fluffy]

2♠ is a minimum 4 card raise, we have more than that
3♣ is a GF forcing raise, normally 18-19 balanced, in some partneship you can have heart shortness as well
3♠ is just an invitational hand, might be good with this hand althou I think a bit conservative
4♣ is splinter, not neccesarilly a void. I don't like splintering with weak hands, if you end up defending opponents have more info than you'd like
4♠ is the gambling hand, althou normally a 4-6 this hands seems to fit, that would be my choice.

[Fluffy]

oh *****, I missed the slam I should had looked at north's hand before posting.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

4C.

First question to answer: force to game or not.
I would answer this one with yes, so this rules out 3S, since 3S is just inv,
but 3S is not unreasonable.
If I force to game, I can and should show the club shortage, given the fact,
that North is an unpassed hand, and I would do this straigth away with 4C.

3C does not show the spade support, it is basically a generic force, I
hate the cue, if I have sensible alternatives.
3C, followed by 4C is certainly a control showing bid, but after certain
continuations from p, the meaning may get fuzzy.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Codo]

3 ♠ limit raise. Yes this is a good slam, but I always miss to find this magic 22 HCP slams.

If someone bids 6 ♠, he may show me where he can find out about the great diamond situation (no xxx in norths hand), the queen of hearts and the 6. trump or the void, the controls and the queen of trumps in south hand.

[jdonn]

Yes what are all these game forces? If partner is passing 3♠ is game likely to be good?

[helene_t]

3♣ is not a GF raise IMHO. It is a GF single-suiter without a club stopper, typically
A-AKx-AKQJxxx-xx
or a little weaker. Maybe it could also include primary spade support. But I think it's easier to play it as specifically a 1-suiter. Then hands with spade support just raise to the appropriate level, as we would have done without intervention. Or splinter.

I think 3♥ should still be a splinter and 4♦ should still be Walsh but maybe someone will LOL me for saying that.

[Fluffy]

jdonn, on Apr 21 2010, 06:25 AM, said:

Yes what are all these game forces? If partner is passing 3♠ is game likely to be good?

ours maybe not, but hey, theirs is probably cold lol.

Seriously, I don't like invitationals with voids, partner cannot evaluate his hand accuratelly. But thinking about this hand deeply, it seems he will actually evaluate everything right except ♣A, so this is a very good exception 3♠ is better.

[kgr]

Fluffy, on Apr 20 2010, 07:54 PM, said:

2♠ is a minimum 4 card raise, we have more than that
3♣ is a GF forcing raise, normally 18-19 balanced, in some partneship you can have heart shortness as well
3♠ is just an invitational hand, might be good with this hand althou I think a bit conservative
4♣ is splinter, not neccesarilly a void. I don't like splintering with weak hands, if you end up defending opponents have more info than you'd like
4♠ is the gambling hand, althou normally a 4-6 this hands seems to fit, that would be my choice.

I would either bid 3♠ or 4♣.
Bidding 4♠ would feel wrong. If forcing to game then why not showing your shortness on the way?
...I'm not saying that it IS wrong, maybe 4♣ is too slam invitational and 4♠ is better.

[Fluffy]

4♠ always has a shortness, so it doesn't deny shortness, it denies interest in slam. Its just a different range, the gambling range where you don't even know if 4♠ will be a decent contract or no but wanna try.

[jdonn]

He can evaluate accurately after they have bid the void. Unbid voids I agree with you.

[straube]

3S. I play mini-splinters and strong NT, so 3S has to be...

1. a concentrated 4-2-5-2 unwilling to open 1N. North can look at his hand and rule that holding
out.

2. a 4S/6D hand not strong enough to force game.

3. a hand with club shortness and somewhere between 5 and 6 losers.

On the bidding, most likely hand 3.

After 3S, 5S verifies whether partner has control of clubs. 6S says yes.

[aguahombre]

3S is fine. About 16 support points. Might miss this slam, but my pard has the imagination I lack.

[ggwhiz]

I'm bidding 3 clubs as a game force at the speed of light. No, I don't always look both ways before I cross the road.

The 4th trump, side source of tricks potential in diamonds and the likelyhood of the heart king being well placed are very cool for a combined 17 point game or a slippery slam.

If pard bids 3 spades, I'll start cue bidding too.

[Codo]

ggwhiz, on Apr 22 2010, 05:55 AM, said:

The 4th trump, ...

Your partner promised 5 spades? Well done, mine did not

[ggwhiz]

Quote

Your partner promised 5 spades? Well done, mine did not

Huh? My pard didn't promise 5 spades but didn't deny them either. If game is on a 4-4 it's not my problem, pard has to play it.

[Jlall]

I think south is an easy 3S bid, but I'd probably miss slam heh

[Codo]

ggwhiz, on Apr 23 2010, 01:31 AM, said:

Quote

Your partner promised 5 spades? Well done, mine did not

Huh? My pard didn't promise 5 spades but didn't deny them either. If game is on a 4-4 it's not my problem, pard has to play it.

So if you just have a 4-4 fit, why is the 4. spade an extra gem in your hand?

[ggwhiz]

Quote

So if you just have a 4-4 fit, why is the 4. spade an extra gem in your hand?

Too many variations to give a great reason but it is remotely possible that with 4 good spades, the right shape and out, pard could make game on a club lead with the Ace King of diamonds and 8 trumps on a cross ruff.

Declarer will have near total tempo control after the opening lead, barring the heart Ace and a trump switch to take their best shot. Might be less than 50% (especially if they start with a trump lead), might be cold on hands that they pass an invite with.

Add the (hopefully) well placed heart king and game is decent to cold opposite almost any 5 spades and the diamond queen (or shortness with some racing luck).

Way too many possibilities but when I can think of a few where pard would pass an invite that make game in less than a minute, I force and take the grief if I'm wrong.

[bid_em_up]

ggwhiz, on Apr 21 2010, 04:55 PM, said:

I'm bidding 3 clubs as a game force at the speed of light. No, I don't always look both ways before I cross the road.

...

If pard bids 3 spades, I'll start cue bidding too.

Things that make you go, hmmmm.