[Bbradley62]

Where can I read (in English) about SEF? If there isn't anywhere online, can someone tell me what opening bids of 2♣ and 2♦ mean? Thanks!

[helene_t]

2♣ is artificial and strong (almost GF)
2♦ is artificial and even stronger (GF)

[Furlan]

SEF is rather similar to SAYC, the differences I can think of right now being:

- 2♣ opening: semi-GF, i.e. 22-23 balanced, 8-8.5 tricks on ♥/♠ or 9-9.5 tricks on ♦/♣. Default response is 2♦, followed by a natural rebid.

- 2♦ opening: absolute GF. Responses are based on the old Albarran 2♣:
 2♥: negative (0-7 HCP, no aces, at most one king)
 2♠: one major-suit ace
 2NT: 8+ HCP or 2 kings, but no aces
 3♣/♦: ace of ♣/♦
 3♥: 2 aces same color
 3♠: 2 aces same rank
 3NT: 2 aces same shape
Followups are natural.

- 1♥/♠ - 2NT: limit raise with 3-card support, so:
- 1♥/♠ - 3♥/♠: limit raise with 4-card support

- Landy against opps' 1NT

- Drury (1-way; the SEF book says 2NT with 4-card support, but very few actually play it)

- Stayman is always inv+ (no garbage Stayman); 1NT - 2♣ - 2NT shows both majors

- (1♣) 2♣ is natural; (1♣) 2♦ shows both majors, as over a 1♦ opening;

- Specific Michaels over 1♥/♠.

[hotShot]

(Some) 2/1 answers in SEF are forcing and promise a bid next round too, so they are almost GF.

[gwnn]

in sayc 2/1 always promises a rebid, not sure what you're saying

[Fluffy]

the biggest difference between SAYC and SEF are

1♠-2♣
2NT

shows extras hence is game forcing
EDIT shows extras in SEF

1♣-1♠
2♠

is 100% 4 card spades.
EDIT: is 100% 4 card spades in SEF

The Albarran responses to 2♦ were ditched about a decade ago. On modern SEF even the 2♦ opening is being ditched for multi or weak 2♦.

[gwnn]

sorry Fluffy what do you mean? in SEF 2NT is minimum? I don't understand

[helene_t]

In sayc it is unclear what
1X-2Y
2NT
means. The acbl sayc document seems to say that it shows a minimum and also that it is forcing, which may be inconsistent.

Unless you play a tighter range of the weak balanced, say pass with a modest 12 and upgrade a decent 14. Then you sometimes can't invite opposite the 12-14 balanced, with a balanced 11-count responder either downgrades to a 1NT response or forces to game.

In SEF at least it's clear. 1M-2m-2NT shows 15-17. Not sure about 1♦-2♣-2NT.

[gwnn]

my impression is that you're not allowed to raise on 3 in SAYC and 2NT rebid is extras in SEF so I don't understand Fluffy's post

[Fluffy]

gwnn, on Apr 17 2010, 11:21 AM, said:

my impression is that you're not allowed to raise on 3 in SAYC and 2NT rebid is extras in SEF so I don't understand Fluffy's post

I think you missunderstood which one I meant to show strenght with 2NT it is SEF wich shows strenght with 2NT rebid.

SAYC is unclear towards this matter and I have seen many players rebid it with 13 balanced.

[gnasher]

There is very little about SEF on the web in French, let alone English. The best pages I could find when I looked were the ones in this post

Mind you, those unofficial summaries are a lot more detailed than the official definition of SAYC.

[gwnn]

Fluffy, on Apr 17 2010, 11:25 AM, said:

gwnn, on Apr 17 2010, 11:21 AM, said:

my impression is that you're not allowed to raise on 3 in SAYC and 2NT rebid is extras in SEF so I don't understand Fluffy's post

I think you missunderstood which one I meant to show strenght with 2NT it is SEF wich shows strenght with 2NT rebid.

SAYC is unclear towards this matter and I have seen many players rebid it with 13 balanced.

OK you just said "the difference between SAYC and SEF is ..." you didn't really say which has which. SAYC can never raise with 3.

[A2003]

SEF

Is it this one?

[glen]

A2003, on Apr 17 2010, 08:27 AM, said:

SEF

Is it this one?

Oui

[gnasher]

A2003, on Apr 17 2010, 01:27 PM, said:

SEF

Is it this one?

This is from that link

Quote

Le changement de couleur en « 2 sur 1 » montre :
− 11 H au moins ;
− cinq cartes dans la couleur annoncee.
A signaler une exception : « 1♠ – 2♥ » avec seulement quatre cartes si aucune autre enchere n’est satisfaisante.

Is that really part of SEF? And if so, what do French players respond with a 2344 16-count?

[helene_t]

Looks like a typo. I think it should read 2♣, not 2♥.

And maybe it promises either 5+ cards or GF values.

[marcD]

gnasher, on Apr 17 2010, 08:54 AM, said:

A2003, on Apr 17 2010, 01:27 PM, said:

SEF

Is it this one?

This is from that link

Quote

Le changement de couleur en « 2 sur 1 » montre :
− 11 H au moins ;
− cinq cartes dans la couleur annoncee.
A signaler une exception : « 1♠ – 2♥ » avec seulement quatre cartes si aucune autre enchere n’est satisfaisante.

Is that really part of SEF? And if so, what do French players respond with a 2344 16-count?

This is definitely not part of SEF . For starters SEF/Majeure 5eme does not include Inverted minors so you have to answer 2♣ over 1♦ with fairly unsusual shapes (with Kxx Kxx KQTxxx A pick you poison but I guess 2♣ is the safest lie). 2♥ does promise 5 cards . 2/1 is forcing to 2NT only.
Agree with other statements
- 1M-2x-2NT shows 15-17 . 1♦-2♣ is less standardized but the common treatement is to play it forcing a.k.a minimax (either good 13/14 or 18-19 , 3NT showing 15-17 with club shortage)
- 2♣ and 2♦ openings are as described previously

Be careful , SEF was written for education purposes so nobody plays SEF per se (this is France after all) . Taking SAYC as a base and being aware of the above is probably the best way to proceed
- other differences may (my knowledge of SAYC is not that good) include
* 2♣ relay over 1m-1M-1NT which is a specific for of checkback (2♦ no fit minimum, 2M FIT minimum, 2OM Fit maximum) with some other variants popular too
* 1m - 1X - 1Y - 3m forcing

[A2003]

SEF

or

SEF English version, is it this one?