[frouu]

I'm kibitzing IAC team match, and both tables opened 2♥ with

Scoring: IMPS

---

at 4th seat.
What are your feelings?

[kenrexford]

Fairly normal agreement. Might be majority, might be strong minority. 2M in fourth seat as a "2 1/2 of the major rebid" hand.

[Mbodell]

That's a minimum or sub-minimum for me.

If the unasked B/I question in the first post is why is a weak 2 being made on this in general, it is because in the pass out seat (4th seat opening, or balancing seat normally) you don't need to "preempt" the auction as if you pass you'll end the auction. Therefore your jump bids are much more constructive. And as a 4th seat opener you get a 0 score if you pass so what ever you bid should have a great expectation of a positive score.

For me, I play that I expect to make -1 if partner has a flat non-fitting yarbarough. So picture xxxx xx xxx xxxx and bid 1 more than I can make opposite that. Which is why for me this would be slightly too weak. I think my view is a little conservative though and main stream is to be more like what kenrexford suggests (this sentence is certainly a rare one!).

[Jlall]

Too strong for me

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

As always a matter of agreement, but for my likening the hand is too strong,
you have 15HCP and a 6 card suit.

Depending on your agreement set, not sure, if this is B/I stuff, if you open 1H
and happen to play Drury, you will be better positioned after 1H, than after 2H
in deciding, if game has a reasonable chance or not.

Of course there are downgrading factors, like Qx in spades, but than you have
3 Aces, so ...

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

I think most play a 1♥ opening followed by a 2♥ rebid as stronger than a 2♥ opening. a 2♥ opening would be 11-13 points, give or take. I think few would open 2♥ with this hand.

[Siegmund]

Three aces is a bit odd for a 2H opening - it makes it hard for partner to evaluate his side kings and queens. In terms of tricks, it's barely adequate -- I expect 6 1/2 or 7 winners for a 4th seat two-bid (7 1/2 or 8 for a 3-bid etc.) For me Kx AQJxxxx xxx x or xxx AKJxxx AQx x is more typical. I think the posted hand is a simple 1H-then-2H for me.

[neilkaz]

This given hand is too strong for me and I'd rather have a better 6 carder than AJxxxx for a 4th seat 2 opener.

[cherdanno]

Way too strong for me.

[Phil]

kenrexford, on Apr 10 2010, 09:43 PM, said:

Fairly normal agreement. Might be majority, might be strong minority. 2M in fourth seat as a "2 1/2 of the major rebid" hand.

A few months ago I heard this as well. I've always played "10-12" or so, and was surprised to hear a lot of top players play it as a 2.5 M rebid, and that they considered it practically standard.

I think this view is backward, and if you play it this way, I'd be curious to know the reason.

[vuroth]

neilkaz, on Apr 11 2010, 06:46 PM, said:

This given hand is too strong for me and I'd rather have a better 6 carder than AJxxxx for a 4th seat 2 opener.

What he said.

[pooltuna]

frouu, on Apr 10 2010, 09:17 PM, said:

I'm kibitzing IAC team match, and both tables opened 2♥ with

Scoring: IMPS

---

at 4th seat.
What are your feelings?

This is probably in range if both sides were light openers and 2nd seat will feel compelled to raise with LR values.

[helene_t]

Phil, on Apr 12 2010, 02:17 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 10 2010, 09:43 PM, said:

Fairly normal agreement.  Might be majority, might be strong minority.  2M in fourth seat as a "2 1/2 of the major rebid" hand.

A few months ago I heard this as well. I've always played "10-12" or so, and was surprised to hear a lot of top players play it as a 2.5 M rebid, and that they considered it practically standard.

I think this view is backward, and if you play it this way, I'd be curious to know the reason.

I think it's for the same reason as why people play IJO in balancing seat.

If you don't play 2-way Drury, what is
1♥-2♦
2♥
?

If you play a 2♥ opening as a 2.5♥ rebid then the above 2♥ rebid could be nonforcing. OTOH if a 2♥ opening is weaker than the 2♥ rebid then you'd probably like to play the above rebid as forcing, but that may take you too high on some hands, especially if opener has a (sub)minimum opening that couldn't open 2♥, for example 4♠5♥.

[kenrexford]

Phil, on Apr 11 2010, 08:17 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 10 2010, 09:43 PM, said:

Fairly normal agreement.  Might be majority, might be strong minority.  2M in fourth seat as a "2 1/2 of the major rebid" hand.

A few months ago I heard this as well. I've always played "10-12" or so, and was surprised to hear a lot of top players play it as a 2.5 M rebid, and that they considered it practically standard.

I think this view is backward, and if you play it this way, I'd be curious to know the reason.

I'm not saying that I play it this way. I'm just saying that it is fairly strong as a plurality or better position.

I think the probable reason is one of parallel structure or parallel theory. If a weak jump in fourth seat after an opening is intermediate, then a weak jump in fourth seat after an initial pass is also "intermediate."

Not that this makes sense, necessarily, but it has symmetry.

Hust read Helene's post. We agree.

[peachy]

1H in any seat. A 2H bid in the 4th seat if the suit were better quality, like KQ109xx and there were not that many aces. Range is still about 11-14 in 4th seat.