[CSGibson]

Scoring: MP

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Playing 2/1,

1). Do you open this hand?
2). If yes to one, do you open it 1♥ or 1♦?
3). If 1♦, what do you plan on bidding over the expected 1♠ response by partner?

[Jlall]

1) Obv open. I'm all for passing marginal hands that don't have great rebids and can be described easily later (michaels or t/o X, the latter in this case). However this very nice 12 is not a marginal hand at all. You cannot fail to open clear openers because of a possible rebid problem that may or may not occur.

2) Obv open 1D. A 1H opener shows 5 and I only have 4. Starting with a lie about the length of your major suit is a terrible way to start the auction.

Consider the possible rebid problem after 1D p 1S p which I still emphasize strongly, MAY NOT HAPPEN (the opps could overcall spades or something else, partner could bid hearts blah blah blah), and when it does happen MAY NOT lead to a bad board (you may guess right, or it may not matter what you do blah blah). Even when this DOES happen, you are not getting such a terrible board necessarily.

On the other hand, imagine the possible problems of showing 5 hearts 100 % of the time when you have 4. You can get to the wrong game easily, or the wrong partial easily, partner can misjudge a competitive auction easily, when it does work badly it will probably be terrible etc. Yes it could work out that the 4-3 is right or that you get your lead in but it is still making a mountain out of a POSSIBLE mole hill to open 1H instead of 1D here. It is just not good at all. If you want to open 1H, start playing 4 card majors so that partner has a chance to not be misled completely from the first bid.

3) Now I bid 1N. To me this is automatic, especially at MP. Your only other option is 2C. This will often miss hearts, and often miss 1N, and often force you to play a partial in a minor. IMO this is really unacceptable. Lying about your club length could be problematic too, but obviously lying about your spade length could be also. 2D on 9xxxx is LOL.

[the hog]

Clear opening and would open 1D. I would rebid 1NT over 1S.

[nigel_k]

1) Yes, always open. It is just far too strong to pass even playing sound openings.

2) I think 1♥ is ok but it is close. It's hard to evaluate because so many different things could happen but I think Justin has really overstated how much you could lose by opening 1♥ compared to what you could lose by opening 1♦. He didn't even mention the possibilty of partner being on lead.

3) If I opened 1♦ I would always rebid 2♣, matchpoints or not. This doesn't have the feel of being a hand where playing 1NT will be a glorious victory for our side.

[Jlall]

nigel_k, on Apr 10 2010, 04:36 AM, said:

He didn't even mention the possibilty of partner being on lead.

jlall said:

Yes it could work out that the 4-3 is right or that you get your lead in

But you're right I didn't mention playing in the 4-2 fit after 1H-1S-2D-2H... or are you rebidding 1N and having the same problems as 1D then 1N?

If I had my choice of opening 1D and rebidding 1N over 1S, or opening 1H and rebidding 2D I would definitely choose the former.

[Little Kid]

1♦ and 1NT. Opening 1♥ is a big no-no for me on a 4card suit unless I am in 3rd/4th seat, no matter how good the quality. If partner is not expecting it, its just asking for trouble. I'm also not a fan of bidding my shorter suits first because it misleads partner if I then rebid my longer suit next. If the opponents do interfere then I don't have a rebid problem anymore so I'll be glad i opened 1♦. If they don't, then yes 1♥ would have been a lead-directing bid for them. Opening 1♥ here really feels like masterminding when partner may not even respond 1♠ or opps could interfere! 1♦ is the only opening bid I'd ever consider.

Over 1♠, 2♦/2♣ rebids seem like they could get me into dodgy contracts. Partner shouldn't pass with any hand willing to play in game opposite a 15-17 count, so I will be sitting in 2♦ on a misfit (or even worse 3♣) way too much for my liking. 1NT rates to be a decent contract and seems like much less of a lie than the other options. You could even be missing a 4-4 ♥ fit by rebidding 2m. With ♦ support partner could still correct to 2♦. I'd probably need a very good ♦ suit in order to convince me to rebid 2♦ here instead of 1NT.

[655321]

Seems that this hand or something like it comes up every few months in the forums.

[mcphee]

How odd you post this hand after a very similar hand was played at a regional swiss. So from the "let me SHOW you what can happen camp" opening 1H can lead to ridiculously bad results. These can take place due to methods over pre-empts, something that is over looked here.

red/white partner opens 1H 4S and you have x xxx Axxx AQJxx and sadly your agreements are dble is penalty. Now it would be wonderful if 5C showed a H fit, but the last time you played together was 9 months ago on a camping trip and you may have been under the influence. You could make 12 tricks but surely we would all bid 5 H given the conditions. A smooth 1100 is the number, and it's not on your side of the ledger. Partner had x AKQ8 Kxx 108432.

Therefore vote #1 is no newspaper bids, #2 if you feel this compelling desire to open 1H, please think of passing as an option. As passing is almost as unilateral as opening 1H I would not consider it a sensible option.

[gwnn]

http://forums.bridge...showtopic=34812 and there is a handful of links

[dburn]

Would open 1♦ and rebid 1NT over 1♠. Would do this even playing four-card majors. Can't pass, because I don't have anything resembling a satisfactory response if partner opens 1♠. See no reason not to hope to show the shape I have, as opposed to a shape I don't have.

Don't understand rebidding 2♣ - how are we supposed to find a 4-4 fit when responder is 5-4 in the majors after that? Don't understand rebidding 2♦ either - holding 12 hcp and making my first two bids in a suit with none of them is to be avoided if possible.

[Rodney26]

Systemically many of my regulars & I have to open this hand 1H because we play kamikaze NT at these colors and we can't handle 1♦-p-1♠. I can't recall ever playing in a 4-2 fit because of it (I'm sure it will now happen twice today). The spade shortness is seemingly great insurance against that happening. I respect Justin's bridge instincts enormously but disagree with him on this one. Bidding where you live is the long run winner here. Open 1♥.

[Free]

Justin explained it nicely: 1♦ followed by 1NT.

[FrancesHinden]

Playing a real majors-first system I might call it a 1=4=4=4 and open 1H. Certainly I would in third seat. But otherwise I@m with the majority.