[Bbradley62]

pooltuna, on Apr 5 2010, 09:31 AM, said:

You have to assume N started w/6♦ to even have a prayer of making. If RHO only has five he would never start the auction with 1♦ holding 1552. Your real problem is deciding whether RHO would start with 1♦ holding 1561 (♠x ♥KJxxx ♦ AKQJTx ♣x) vs 1462 (♠x ♥KJxx ♦ AKQJTx ♣Qx). Given the existing auction we need to know how the opps play 2♥ and how they play an immediate 4♥ call by our LHO. I suspect LHO's inability to call a natural 4♥ in this auction would favor a holding of xx AQTxxxx x Qxx which means RHO was planning to reverse his hand with a 1561 hand that I would probably open 1♥ so IMO it is still a tossup as to whether or not to finesse.

Tuna: Isn't the point that we want to finesse if North has 3 clubs and play to drop if North has 2 clubs? Your analysis (which I'm not necessarily agreeing with) only allows for the North to have 1 or 2 clubs, so why would you ever finesse?

[655321]

Bbradley62, on Apr 5 2010, 09:06 AM, said:

pooltuna, on Apr 5 2010, 09:31 AM, said:

You have to assume N started w/6♦ to even have a prayer of making. If RHO only has five he would never start the auction with 1♦ holding 1552. Your real problem is deciding whether RHO would start with 1♦ holding 1561 (♠x ♥KJxxx ♦ AKQJTx ♣x)  vs 1462 (♠x ♥KJxx ♦ AKQJTx ♣Qx). Given the existing auction we need to know how the opps play 2♥ and how they play an immediate 4♥ call by our LHO. I suspect LHO's inability to call a natural 4♥ in this auction would favor a holding of xx AQTxxxx x Qxx which means RHO was planning to reverse his hand with a 1561 hand that I would probably open 1♥ so IMO it is still a tossup as to whether or not to finesse.

Tuna: Isn't the point that we want to finesse if North has 3 clubs and play to drop if North has 2 clubs? Your analysis (which I'm not necessarily agreeing with) only allows for the North to have 1 or 2 clubs, so why would you ever finesse?

Yes, the only issue is do you play North to be 1453 (South 2821) and finesse, or play North to be 1462 (South 2812) and play for the drop. Ruffing a diamond will rule out one of these holdings. Tunafish's post makes no sense.

[dburn]

If you ruff a diamond, South will show out. His original spade holding was ♠J8.

[655321]

dburn, on Apr 5 2010, 10:34 AM, said:

If you ruff a diamond, South will show out. His original spade holding was ♠J8.

I forgot there is such a thing as a 9 card suit.

So we need to decide between 1363 (2911) and 1462 (2812).

[pooltuna]

Bbradley62, on Apr 5 2010, 09:06 AM, said:

pooltuna, on Apr 5 2010, 09:31 AM, said:

You have to assume N started w/6♦ to even have a prayer of making. If RHO only has five he would never start the auction with 1♦ holding 1552. Your real problem is deciding whether RHO would start with 1♦ holding 1561 (♠x ♥KJxxx ♦ AKQJTx ♣x)  vs 1462 (♠x ♥KJxx ♦ AKQJTx ♣Qx). Given the existing auction we need to know how the opps play 2♥ and how they play an immediate 4♥ call by our LHO. I suspect LHO's inability to call a natural 4♥ in this auction would favor a holding of xx AQTxxxx x Qxx which means RHO was planning to reverse his hand with a 1561 hand that I would probably open 1♥ so IMO it is still a tossup as to whether or not to finesse.

Tuna: Isn't the point that we want to finesse if North has 3 clubs and play to drop if North has 2 clubs? Your analysis (which I'm not necessarily agreeing with) only allows for the North to have 1 or 2 clubs, so why would you ever finesse?

yeah I keep getting my LHO and RHO mixed up so you are left with RHO needing to hold 1453 or 1462 and ruffing a ♦ should clear that up unless I still haven't had enough coffee this morning

[cherdanno]

I would play for the 9-card suit - 6H red/white on 2=8=1=2 doesn't look so attractive to me (although I guess you only need a spade lead and spade void from partner to make an overtrick). The a priori odds favor 2=8=1=2 though, of course - by almost 2:1.

Btw, I assume the heart continuation was ♥A from LHO? It really doesn't hurt to give us full information when we are just trying to make a guess...

[dburn]

LHO did indeed continue with the ace of hearts.

[Jlall]

Obv play them for 2911.

I mean...they showed 1 keycard for hearts so they are marked with the CQ for the opener? Maybeeee they have specifically x QJxx AQJxxx xx but whatever.

Also the bidding by LHO would be ridiculous with 2812 r/w.

Also the DK lead with the AK of hearts is more clear with 9 hearts than with 8.

[Fluffy]

sorry didn't read all, but after partner bids 3♠ I would had bid 6♠ already, but that might get them to sacrifice, so your slow bidding is probably paying dividends now. Bid 6♠ now.

[Rossoneri]

Sorry, South did indeed have 2911 shape, although the information I given was what I had to work with at that particular point in time at the table save for the fact that the heart return was the A♥. (Thanks David!)

[dburn]

Well, it was normal to finesse in clubs - South had bid a slam that he knew was off two aces, after all. He probably would not have done that with two losers in both black suits.

Still, you did the right thing whenever it was your go, and you deserved your result. Well played.

[Rossoneri]

dburn, on Apr 6 2010, 03:26 AM, said:

Well, it was normal to finesse in clubs - South had bid a slam that he knew was off two aces, after all. He probably would not have done that with two losers in both black suits.

Still, you did the right thing whenever it was your go, and you deserved your result. Well played.

Thanks, but even still, I couldn't help thinking that I might have gotten better clues from the bidding/play and in the first place, I thought my bidding was not necessarily the best.

I guess you're right about the slam being off 2 aces being a pretty good clue about the distribution

It was a pleasure to play against you and we were pretty lucky on the other boards!

[Jlall]

I'll say it again, RHO is almost marked with the CQ for his opening bid. There is only one conceivable hand where he doesn't have it and would open. This might even be stronger than the clue that LHO is a lunatic if he has 2812, depending on who LHO is (it's easy to see people going crazy with 8 hearts when their partner raises them freely to game!).

[ewj]

I actually played this hand against Zia and have a nice brag, in a way .

RHO opened 1♦, I bid 1♠, Zia bid 2♥ and partner bid 3♠.
I thought about just punting slam but it's not really my style (is it better with hands like this?) and I could have been cold for grand conceivably, so I kicked off with 5♥. Zia bid 6♥ and partner contributed 6♠. Zia backed in with a double. I thought about letting it go but Zia was unfavourable, plus I thought he was too much of a man to run like a girl after doubling. It would be a bit of a story if he got "done" by someone redoubling, plus it obviously helped that he clearly thought we were pissing around. Plus, making a slam redoubled against Zia is quite a nice story !

Anyway, he kicked off with the uninspired singleton club lead and unfortunately that was only 12 .


At another table, they bid 7♥ over 6♠, which got doubled, and the player on lead unadvisedly decided partner's double was lightner and plonked a diamond on the table, so in rolled 7HX.

[RMB1]

There were a number of rulings on this hand. My ruling concerned overhearing remarks from the next table: We should have bid six hearts.

[CamHenry]

At our table I held the N hand on this board; we had an uninspiring auction to 6S by E, which I doubled as N (largely because the auction was ridiculous). Partner led the DK, which I overtook and returned another diamond; declarer ruffed small and then played for the drop in clubs - so 6SX-2, when our teammates scored 4H+2. Best board of the day!

[mjj29]

CamHenry, on Apr 8 2010, 04:38 AM, said:

At our table I held the N hand on this board; we had an uninspiring auction to 6S by E, which I doubled as N (largely because the auction was ridiculous). Partner led the DK, which I overtook and returned another diamond; declarer ruffed small and then played for the drop in clubs - so 6SX-2, when our teammates scored 4H+2. Best board of the day!

Actually you mean 5S+1, otherwise it wouldn't be so good.

I also thought our best board was bringing in 5S= on the double major fit while our team mates made a cold-off 3NT

[Fluffy]

I guess he also means 6♠X -1, because going down 2 its completelly impossible unless you play clubs before trumps.

[wank]

Fluffy, on Apr 8 2010, 06:10 AM, said:

I guess he also means 6♠X -1, because going down 2 its completelly impossible unless you play clubs before trumps.

no it's not. south didn't try to cash a heart. instead he played a 2nd diamond at t2 which gives declarer a problem - ruffing high promotes a trump trick when they're 3-0 whereas ruffing low runs the risk of an overruff which is what happened. declarer then evidently played for the drop in clubs.

at my table we sacrificed in 7H, opps pushed onto 7S. we doubled it for -1. came back to score up and lost 3 imps to 6sXX-1