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Couple of take out doubles Are they sound?

#1 User is offline   el mister 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 03:49

How do you rate these two take out doubles?

Scoring: IMP

P - 1♥ - X


Scoring: IMP

P - 1♥ - X


I suspect they may be dodgy - so I turn to you for advice. The first one in particular, I was told afterwards that a double of a major should show 4 in the other - is this the case?
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 03:52

first one 100
second one 0
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 04:20

gwnn, on Mar 23 2010, 04:52 PM, said:

first one 100
second one 0

Agree totally.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#4 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 04:31

Agree.

For reference, 3 card support is okay-ish with a side singleton or void, and some ruffing values. Obviously 4-3 fits aren't the best, but if partner shows up with 5 you're golden.

I've mastered the fine art of passing with 12-15ish and flat hand over opponents opening bids. Actually, I might pass TOO often, but it's not as bad an action as it may sound.

IMO.
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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#5 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 04:36

BTW

Kxx is much different from xxx or Axx. Also (at least to me)

(1M)-? is much different from
(1M)-p-(1N)-?.

in the first auction it is quite lucrative to x with 4333 and friends (provided you don't have junk like QJx in their suit) but in the second unless you have a good balanced 16+ count it's best to have a bit of shape to take action.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#6 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 06:44

First is 100% t/o dble. It is wrong to to say you need to have 4 of other major to make a t/o dble. This hand is a fine example, as anyone who would elect to bid 2C with that suit deserves to be punished.

I do not really like dble on hand 2 very much at all. I would not act if 1NT was F or NF, although I would not go bonkers if a person was to dble a NF NT, but would ask them to play the hand :P
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#7 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 08:22

ditto to everyone
OK
bed
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#8 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 09:12

el mister, on Mar 23 2010, 04:49 AM, said:

How do you rate these two take out doubles?

Scoring: IMP

P - 1♥ - X


Scoring: IMP

P - 1♥ - X


I suspect they may be dodgy - so I turn to you for advice. The first one in particular, I was told afterwards that a double of a major should show 4 in the other - is this the case?

I pretty much agree with everyone else in the forum to this point and think whoever told you you need 4 of oM is bonkers but then I routinely X with 4333 where 4 is in the opps suit. Nevertheless I still don't like entering the second auction but probably find it less distasteful than others.
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 09:13

Agree with the others. The second one is a standout double of a 1♠ opening bid but so much worse in 4th seat after a 1NT response.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#10 User is offline   el mister 

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Posted 2010-March-23, 10:24

Thks all, v helpful.
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