[Fluffy]

Scoring: MP

1♦-1♥
1♠-3♦
3♠-3NT
pass

---

please don't blame the methods, 2♣ would be 4SF=GF.

[helene_t]

If I am not allowed to blame the methods then there isn't much to blame. Maybe E could have stretched to a game force, then W will first bid 2♦ and then show heart support.

Anyway, at matchpoints you might still beat those who are in 5♦.

[pooltuna]

Can I blame Helene...er Lady Luck

[jdonn]

W 3♥ not 3♠ I say.

[whereagles]

What's there to blame? On the hyper-marked club lead, 3NT has the same odds as 5♦ and scores more in overtricks.

Still, if you wanna get picky and find a 4♥ game (which isn't 100% cold anyway...), the only way I see is

1♦ 1♥
1♠ 3♦
3♠ 4♥
pass

3♦ = fine bid, since 2♣ can get you too high.
3♠ = fine to me as well. Not 3♥ as with these methods it would show 3 cards.
4♥ = given the proved club weakness, it's a proposal to play there.

[Codo]

whereagles, on Mar 10 2010, 08:12 PM, said:

What's there to blame? On the hyper-marked club lead, 3NT has the same odds as 5♦ and scores more in overtricks.

5 Diamond scores less in undertricks...

[gwnn]

good question, does 3H from opener promise 3 or could it be 2? I think it should be allowed to do it on 2 but maybe I am influenced by this hand. But I think it's better than having the rebid 3S mean almost nothing. anywayyyy responder might have overbid 2♣ given his great suit, controls and fit. but then does 2H promise 3 or could it be 2?

[mcphee]

I am not so pleased with the 3S bid, how would that player show a 5-6 hand? Responder faced an awkward spot with a hand on the edge and basically elected to show limit values for D. Given the 3S bid frankly I would have pushed on the gas looking for slam.

5D is a pretty decent contract and far better than 3N. This is pairs though and perhaps if D do not come in we can place our hopes on H. The problem is that if H come home you are making 6D. So in my view it is E who should have cue bid 4C and drive up to the D slam.

[OleBerg]

Codo, on Mar 10 2010, 01:47 PM, said:

whereagles, on Mar 10 2010, 08:12 PM, said:

What's there to blame? On the hyper-marked club lead, 3NT has the same odds as 5♦ and scores more in overtricks.

5 Diamond scores less in undertricks...

Actually 3NT is microscopicly better, as it can often handle 4 diamonds in South.

[jjbrr]

What was west trying to accomplish with his 3♠ bid? Was he merely confirming that he had his 1♠ bid? This hand is a perfect example of why it's right to bid 3♥ with Hx. And the x this time is the 9, which is about as good as an x can be!

[pooltuna]

jjbrr, on Mar 10 2010, 10:05 AM, said:

What was west trying to accomplish with his 3♠ bid? Was he merely confirming that he had his 1♠ bid? This hand is a perfect example of why it's right to bid 3♥ with Hx. And the x this time is the 9, which is about as good as an x can be!

no third ♥ and no ♣ stopper?

[ArtK78]

pooltuna, on Mar 10 2010, 10:37 AM, said:

jjbrr, on Mar 10 2010, 10:05 AM, said:

What was west trying to accomplish with his 3♠ bid? Was he merely confirming that he had his 1♠ bid? This hand is a perfect example of why it's right to bid 3♥ with Hx. And the x this time is the 9, which is about as good as an x can be!

no third ♥ and no ♣ stopper?

One might want to know the style of this partnership.

Do they frequently raise partners one-over-one response in a major with honor third (or even 3 small with an appropriate hand)? If so, then 3♥ over 3♦ could be expected to show honor doubleton. But if not, then 3♥ over 3♦ might be expected to show 3 card support.

So, West might have considered himself endplayed into bidding 3♠.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

what is the problem?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

If opener is 4351 he can bid 3♥ and then not pass 3NT when responder bids it, as if 3NT were right opposite that shape responder would rebid 2NT rather than 3♦. And if responder does anything else over 3♥ opener can next bid 4♥ to confirm 3 card support.

So when opener first bids 3♥ responder is welcome to assume it's a doubleton. Simple. I don't even see a downside frankly, at least one that isn't quite obscure. I'm fully convinced people play this show 3 because that's how they learned it so they get stuck on it, not because it's better at all.

[MFA]

1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 3♦
3♥ - 4♥
pass

Being late to support partner is a usual downfall.

[kayin801]

I would love to have X-Y-Z here.

1♦-1♥-
1♠-2♣-
2♦-2♥-
2♠-3♦-
3♥- and now pick your game?

I'm happy with 3NT though :/

[Siegmund]

I don't think there is much non-method blame to assign. At IMPs you might rather be in 5D (and East is probably the one to make that decision over 3♠.)

I agree with the 3♠ call - partner is fishing for 3 hearts or a club stop, you have neither, but you have the values to try for a game... 3♠ keeps options open that raising diamonds doesn't.

Bidding 3♥ as West I would rate between bad and insane. You're going to "enjoy" playing J9 opposite Kxxxx in 4H when 3NT is cold a LOT more often than you're going to bid magic 5-2 heart games where 3NT is bad.

There is plenty of method blame to assign, for agreeing FSF-game, though.

[jdonn]

Siegmund, on Mar 10 2010, 04:21 PM, said:

Bidding 3♥ as West I would rate between bad and insane. You're going to "enjoy" playing J9 opposite Kxxxx in 4H when 3NT is cold a LOT more often than you're going to bid magic 5-2 heart games where 3NT is bad.

If partner bids 4♥ over 3♥ with Kxxxx then he is the terrible and insane one. He can bid 4♦ if he is stuck for anything else (unable to bid 3NT etc.) and then if opener has 3 hearts he will bid 4♥. I still don't see why this is so hard to understand....

[655321]

Playing standard methods 3♠ sounds to me like West is bidding out his 5-6.

No doubt Fluffy would open 1♠ with any 5 card spade suit even with longer diamonds so that wouldn't apply. Even then I don't much like 3♠, but I really don't see how anyone playing standard methods (where you open your longest suit) can bid 3♠ here.

[Fluffy]

whereagles, on Mar 10 2010, 11:12 AM, said:

Still, if you wanna get picky and find a 4♥ game (which isn't 100% cold anyway...), the only way I see is

1♦ 1♥
1♠ 3♦
3♠ 4♥
pass

3♦ = fine bid, since 2♣ can get you too high.
3♠ = fine to me as well. Not 3♥ as with these methods it would show 3 cards.
4♥ = given the proved club weakness, it's a proposal to play there.

I love this sequence, you cannot have more than 5 strong hearts or 6 bad ones if you bid 3♦ before, and ♣Ax with the weak diamonds doesn't make you crazy for NT.

Bt I am obviously biased because I was the 3♠ bidder, I might have bid it too fast, I routinelly rebid my 4c major when I am stuck with no good bid, but maybe I should had thought a bit more this time.