[whereagles]

Free, on Jul 21 2004, 12:53 PM, said:

If you're the expert, and your partner the beginner, then you should learn him to become a better bridge player. (...)
Important thing is the way you explain to your p he made a mistake.

Like I said, that's all nice and well... if pard wants to learn. Some people are not interested in learning. They just want to win. And to win I must make the percentage play, which, opposite a weak pard, I believe is a pull out. In the end I would, of course, explain him nicely what was going on on that hand.

Keep in mind this is opposite a WEAK partner. Opposite any good parnter, to pull out is the worst thing you can do, because it denotes you're treating him as you'd tread a weak partner. He'll feel outraged. Helene's story only shows a point if she tells us who pard and the opponents were.

[Free]

How can you say a POOR player just wants to win?? How CAN a poor player win?? By becoming a better player, not by luck or the skills of his partner Poor players are happy if they reach 50%, that's it... Ofcourse, everybody wants to win, but they just can't, and they know it. And if they can't understand that winning is all about skill, then they'll never win imo, even with all the luck in the world.

And if they still don't want to learn, if they're completely blind of "want to win" and "don't want to learn", then I don't think I have to ruin MY reputation by making unnecessary mistakes for such players, but teach them the hard way by giving them -2300 (hopefully scoring in imps). If they still don't want to think clear after several such telephone numbers, then I think you better look for another partner, cause thinking for 2 isn't fun at all, and if it goes wrong, you've done it anyway...

[whereagles]

Many people believe they can win if they hire a good partner. They trust YOU to make the difficult decisions (because they don't understand this is a partnership game). It's your duty not to let them down. Especially if they're paying...

The human mind isn't always logical, and the above is an example of how it sometimes works irrationally.

[Free]

Lol, ok, when they pay you, you should do whatever to win. You have a point there

[paulhar]

I thnik y'all are doing a disservice to your weak partner by trying to teaching him anything of the sort. Presumably, you are playing with this partner to help him learn. If you clutter his mind with junk like pulling 3NTx on this hand (which may come up again in ten years), the poor guy will be so confused and unable to learn the routine concepts he should be learning. Not to mention that the next time it does come up, his partner might have 3NT cold in his own hand.

If your beginner partner displays a misconception which is going to hurt him on a lot of hands, now you might want to say something. Not because his misconception cost on this hand, but because it will help him frequently in the long run if he learns the concept.

Different people have a different capacity to learn, but in my experience, if you give your partner more than three lessons in a 26 board session, you are asking for trouble. Your partner will play worse and also will be less receptive to learning.

If you're playing with the poor player in an individual or a random click in the Main Bridge Club, I still think you're doing your partner a disservice by 'teaching him THIS lesson' unless he asks. He's probably thrilled to be playing with you; don't change that fact. If you guess wrong over the double, admit that you guessed wrong and get on to the next deal. Don't berate partner for his ignorance.

Hey - we're bridge players and keeping our mouth shut is tough! But I have found it to be worthwile when my partners play above their expected ability.

[Cascade]

whereagles, on Jul 21 2004, 11:19 PM, said:

I don't have that big an ego to put it above my will to win.

I like this

[Cascade]

whereagles, on Jul 22 2004, 01:45 AM, said:

Many people believe they can win if they hire a good partner. They trust YOU to make the difficult decisions (because they don't understand this is a partnership game). It's your duty not to let them down. Especially if they're paying...

The human mind isn't always logical, and the above is an example of how it sometimes works irrationally.

This is impossible.

They are not going to thankyou when you pull yourself from a cold 3NT Dbl to get a miserable 130 or worse.

Last time my partner pulled after his own gambling 3NT I had the three side Aces to go with his running suit. You can imagine how pleased I was with his faith in my judgement.

[Cascade]

paulhar, on Jul 22 2004, 05:19 AM, said:

I thnik y'all are doing a disservice to your weak partner by trying to teaching him anything of the sort. Presumably, you are playing with this partner to help him learn. If you clutter his mind with junk like pulling 3NTx on this hand (which may come up again in ten years), the poor guy will be so confused and unable to learn the routine concepts he should be learning. Not to mention that the next time it does come up, his partner might have 3NT cold in his own hand.

Then teach him something about who is the Captain on a hand. This concept comes up on virtually every hand.

On this auction after I bid 3NT you are the Captain so you have to make the tough decision. In general the partner whose hand is least well known is the Captain so that player should be making the decision unless the well defined hand has something special to say.

[Free]

Cascade, on Jul 21 2004, 10:39 PM, said:

paulhar, on Jul 22 2004, 05:19 AM, said:

I thnik y'all are doing a disservice to your weak partner by trying to teaching him anything of the sort.  Presumably, you are playing with this partner to help him learn.  If you clutter his mind with junk like pulling 3NTx on this hand (which may come up again in ten years), the poor guy will be so confused and unable to learn the routine concepts he should be learning.  Not to mention that the next time it does come up, his partner might have 3NT cold in his own hand.

Then teach him something about who is the Captain on a hand. This concept comes up on virtually every hand.

On this auction after I bid 3NT you are the Captain so you have to make the tough decision. In general the partner whose hand is least well known is the Captain so that player should be making the decision unless the well defined hand has something special to say.

I totally agree. This concept is quite frequent (after about every jump intervention)...

[the hog]

"give him a yarlborough, what should he bid? "

4C of course, Luke. Pulling this double yourself is a gross insult to your partner. It is the equivalent of saying, "I have told you what I have, you are not not good enough to act on that information, so I have overridden your judgement and masterminded." I would not play with this player again - ever!

[whereagles]

I think you didn't yet realize what I was saying

Put Mrs. Guggenheim across the table. She passes the double.. There's $1000 at stake. Are you going to rescue yourself or not?

[Cascade]

Am I paying or is Mrs Guggenheim?

[the hog]

As Mrs Guggenheim would be paying the costs, I pass of course.

[whereagles]

Both pay. It's rubber bridge, not duplicate.

[luke warm]

for a thousand bucks, i'm bidding 4C

[Free]

So, can we soon get the full hand, and the history of the hand plz??

[Cascade]

luke warm, on Jul 23 2004, 10:57 AM, said:

for a thousand bucks, i'm bidding 4C

I hope that you are paying for Mrs Guggenheim when you had 9 or more tops in 3NT.

[cnszsun]

---

This is the full hand. It happens at a national match, some south pulled, some not.
Personally, i agree decision should be made by North, but in reality, life is not always so simple.

[luke warm]

Cascade, on Jul 23 2004, 05:26 AM, said:

luke warm, on Jul 23 2004, 10:57 AM, said:

for a thousand bucks, i'm bidding 4C

I hope that you are paying for Mrs Guggenheim when you had 9 or more tops in 3NT.

as long as she pays for me when we don't

[Trpltrbl]

Pass, hopefully I play with sane pd who knows what my bid means and tends to make sane decisions.

Mike