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no control available

#1 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 09:38

I'm sure that I did misbid this one and a better place would probably be the beginner list......But this is a good way for not forgetting.
Scoring: IMP

1♦-1♠
3♦-4♦
4♥-??
 
All bids are rather standard
1♦=4+♦
3♦=Good hand with 6c♦ (14 pts is possible...but probably not with ♦AK in my hand)
4♦=forcing (slam interest)
4♥=Italian cue (1st/2nd control).
 
If partner is missing a control then 5♦ is the best bid.
If he is missing the extra's to bid 4NT then 4NT - RKC 4130 - is the best bid (and do you continue then over 5♣?).
What should it be?
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 09:40

I would bid 5♦. I already showed slam interest, and now that partner cuebids the lowest available suit I can clearly show I have the values but no controls.
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#3 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 09:42

4NT
OK
bed
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#4 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 09:45

nothing is stopping me from reaching slam here, if aprtner has ♠K ♥KQ ♦QJ ♣A it is only 15 HCP so far and he should had more given the bad diamonds.

so 4NT is is for sure. If you don't wanna bid 4NT your bid is 5♥.
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#5 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 09:58

5H seems like a good description of our hand (no black suit control etc). 7 is still in play pretty easily opposite as little as --- KQx QJTxxxx Axx (which isn't a 3D bid but you get the point).

edit: damn when I started writing that I was gonna be the 2nd reply lol.

The problem with 4N is partner might not show a spade void imo (since it's our suit). I guess it's insurance against being off 2 aces, but it seems impossible that partner has jumped then cued with 0 keycards.
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#6 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 10:48

I think 5♥ is perfect. No matter what you choose you definitely have a slam force and should be thinking about a grand.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 11:43

5♦ if pard knows what he's doing. Else just take charge and bid 4NT or some masterminding fake 4♠ cue, so that pard can bid 4NT himself.

Josh's 5♥ is interesting, but it requires good partnership trust (don't wanna give a random pard an headache).
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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 11:51

If you bid 5♦, partner, looking at a queen-high suit, will pass like a shot. 4♦ didn't promise a 15-count with AK-A.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 11:56

gnasher, on Feb 25 2010, 12:51 PM, said:

If you bid 5♦, partner, looking at a queen-high suit, will pass like a shot. 4♦ didn't promise a 15-count with AK-A.

and 5 card support.
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#10 User is offline   bid_em_up 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 13:49

Why did I bid 1♠ instead of making a forcing (GF if possible) bid in our known nine card fit?
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
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#11 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 14:12

Is 5♣ last train? I seldom get last train right
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

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2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

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#12 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 14:13

5♣ should be a cuebid without a ♠ cuebid.
OK
bed
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#13 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 15:54

bid_em_up, on Feb 25 2010, 02:49 PM, said:

Why did I bid 1♠ instead of making a forcing (GF if possible) bid in our known nine card fit?

Most people play this way, myself included.
Kevin Fay
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#14 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2010-February-25, 16:49

I did bid 5♦ because I thought that partner missed a control because he started cue-bidding, but he rather missed the extra's (and ♦AK) to bid more.
After the opening lead partner claimed for +2.
I was now convinced that 4NT is better than 5♦. Not sure yet if 5♥ is still better.
(the claim and card folding was fast, and it wasn't the right moment to ask for a better look at partners hand :P , so I don't know partners exact hand)
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#15 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-February-26, 04:03

kgr, on Feb 25 2010, 05:49 PM, said:

I did bid 5♦ because I thought that partner missed a control because he started cue-bidding, but he rather missed the extra's (and ♦AK) to bid more.

This sentence does not make any sense to me. could you rephrase?
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#16 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-February-26, 04:23

I think he means partner had all the controls but was missing the ♦AK which is why he started cuebidding.

He might as well just have used Blacky or re-evaluate after his partner showed values without controls...
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#17 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-February-26, 04:41

So he thought partner had all the controls and therefore he signed off? Still doesn't make sense to me.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#18 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-February-26, 05:10

hanp, on Feb 26 2010, 10:41 AM, said:

So he thought partner had all the controls and therefore he signed off? Still doesn't make sense to me.

no han lol, there are 2 people thinking in this problem. One has a problem about suit quality and the other has a problem about controls, but somehow both though that partner had the same problem as them

Ok, after rereading I am sure this is not useful at all for you :)

kgr assumed partner had a cuebid problem when he started cuebidding when in fact he didn't
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#19 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-February-26, 06:57

Ok, kgr had values but no controls. His partner had all the controls except for ♦AK. kgr thought that his partner started cuebidding because his partner missed one or more controls (while in fact he didn't), so he "signed off".
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#20 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2010-February-26, 07:18

Free, on Feb 26 2010, 02:57 PM, said:

Ok, kgr had values but no controls. His partner had all the controls except for ♦AK. kgr thought that his partner started cuebidding because his partner missed one or more controls (while in fact he didn't), so he "signed off".

More specific:
My partner did bid 4♥ control.
- I thought that he bid 4♥ control because he was missing a ♠ or a ♣ control and therefor I did bid 5♦.
- But in fact: missing a control was not the reason for my partner's 4♥. He did bid 4♥ because he didn't want to take leadership of the hand. Which is logic because he already described his hand better then I did. (In the actual hand he did not have the extra's to take control of the hand, but probably he will very rarely take control after this bidding?)
- Having ♦AK in my own hand should be more an indication of not bidding 5♦, because - not having ♦AK - it will be difficult for partner to continue over 5♦.

Regards,
Koen
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