[cloa513]

Supposing bidding goes with dealer south 1♦, 4♥,5♦ all pass.

While I could bother with tableau the key is that south and north have all the top diamonds and can eliminate West's exit cards but east has all the lower honours in the side suits. South also has in hearts AQ and north has xx so south does a throw in and West fearing that N-S could make 7 if he doesn't take the KH and when he does its a double sluff and ruff situation. So how does East tell West to duck the Q♥ and declarer then goes down.


There are many other situation where beginner signals just aren't available.

[Fluffy]

If I understood everything you said (I deserve a price then) sounds like an easy discard ♥J to show ♥J109

[cloa513]

Sorry if I gave you the wrong idea but that not the issue East has one heart- It actually from a book- here is more details.

West ♠x ♦xx ♣xx; S/N ♠A ♦AK ♣AK collectively with more x's in those suit- the numbers doesn't matter in practice except suffice to say they have too many losers.

[peachy]

cloa513, on Feb 26 2010, 04:57 PM, said:

Sorry if I gave you the wrong idea but that not the issue East has one heart- It actually from a book- here is more details.

West ♠x ♦xx ♣xx; S/N ♠A ♦AK ♣AK collectively with more x's in those suit- the numbers doesn't matter in practice except suffice to say they have too many losers.

If it is from a book, post the hand to make it clear what you are looking for. I don't quite understand, but that may be a fault on my part.

[cloa513]

S:

Bidding 1[Dl], 4♥, 5[Dl], All pass

---

Lead is ♠2 any other doesn't matter- really the only lead to gurantee declarer losing is ♥K N/S otherwise plays ♠A, ♦A,♦K, ♣A,♣K, ♥A,♥Q so how does East indicate to West to duck the ♥Q as N-S will go down by one trick.

[cloa513]

There are lots of other examples. Examples where declarer is being deceptive or making odd plays to get defenders to make the wrong defence in a contract that seem either solid or has in double dummy no chance- I have thought of signals to combat these like if declarer is leading to a combination on dummy in a very high level contract 5,6,7 e.g. AQJ10 to the A then defender second to play indicates the next suit to lead assuming that declarer is planning a ruffing finance. Other times the other time to signal is following to trumps. So what are thought on how to signally- should you even try with the risks. Sometimes it seems obvious for a given hand that your signal should not harm the contract as declarer will play one defender for the cards that may be indicated by the signal but is having such a detail on the system card a risk for other contracts.

[peachy]

cloa513, on Feb 27 2010, 06:32 AM, said:

S:

Bidding 1[Dl], 4♥, 5[Dl], All pass

---

Lead is ♠2 any other doesn't matter- really the only lead to gurantee declarer losing is ♥K N/S otherwise plays ♠A, ♦A,♦K, ♣A,♣K, ♥A,♥Q so how does East indicate to West to duck the ♥Q as N-S will go down by one trick.

East has no role in this defense and nothing to signal at this point but he should have given correct count signal on the AK clubs. West himself (if he has paid attention) must know that there are no more hearts elsewhere and he has no other suit to play so if he takes the HQ, he is then forced to play into doublevoid. In some cases playing into doublevoid does not cost, though usually does. Here, West would be forced to play into doublevoid twice, first allowing declarer a sluff-sluff [club from one hand, spade from other] and in the next trick a sluff-ruff and the contract. West must be alert and not automatically take a trick offered without thinking of the possible consequences. Beautiful hand.

[OleBerg]

Sorry to be an oaf, but the hand is too easy.

West will know his only hope is to duck, as soon as he learns that partner is singleton in diamonds.

But with all the strong intermidiates East has, he can actually make it even easier for partner:

East plays the ♠10 at trick one. (Standard signal.)
East discards the ♠K on the second diamond. (Standard signal.)
East plays the ♣J and ♣10 under the Ace and King. (Standard signal.)

This should wake a sleepy partner.

The key to ducking, is to know the concept of discarding a loser on both hands on the first ruff and sluff.

If West cannot see this, East can't help him.

[gwnn]

whisper in a very discreet manner 'quack quack'.

[OleBerg]

An even more beautiful hand:

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding:

(5♣) - Pass - (Pass) - 5♦
All pass.

The ♣Q is led, covered by the King, East discarding a major-card, giving away most of the distribution.

South overtakes the ♣K with the Ace, cashes two rounds of thrumphs and both major aces, hoping West is 1-1.

South now exits in Clubs, and West must give a sluff-sluff, and then a ruff-sluff.

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on Feb 27 2010, 07:32 AM, said:

whisper in a very discreet manner 'quack quack'.

you mean "meow meow" right? Unless you are a duck ...clothing

[kfay]

Sounds like a situation where West can figure this out himself and probably should.

[gwnn]

pooltuna, on Feb 27 2010, 01:48 PM, said:

gwnn, on Feb 27 2010, 07:32 AM, said:

whisper in a very discreet manner 'quack quack'.

you mean "meow meow" right? Unless you are a duck ...clothing