[phil_20686]

Scoring: IMP

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SO the auctiohn, starting with South Goes:

1♥ 2N 3♥ 4♣
4♥ 5♣

A double at this point would have been very profitable, but fortuneately south bid on to 5h and went off for a good board.

When this hand was given to some better players there was a strong disagreement. Manythought 2n was poot because of the suit disparity. Some thought 4c was "ridiculouls" as it shoudl be sac suggesting. These experts thoguht 5c was normal at that point (even if they would not have bid 2n originally. Others thought 4C just showed the desire to compete at the 4 level. These experts typicallly thought that 5c was off the planet. I was wondering what other people thoguht of this auction.

Thanks for your time.

[helene_t]

Congrats with you Camrose win, Phil!

Anyway, I blame West, I think 2NT is fine but the strong diamonds may be as useful in defense as in offense as East could be short in diamonds.

[aguahombre]

2NT OK. Partner was in charge for the rest of the E/W auction. West forgot his 2NT bid and raised his partner's suit?

[jdonn]

I think 2NT sucks with that suit disparity. 4♣ by east seems fine. Can't imagine why north didn't double 5♣.

[Jlall]

5C is awful, just because you are 6-5 you don't have to bid lol. West has very good defense (a stiff spade is good defense, AK in the suit partner didn't raise, bad clubs..) and no extra offense. Yes he's 6-5, but that's why he was able to stretch to bid in the first place, his hand still sucks.

I prefer 3D from west to begin with, or 2D if playing intermediate jump overcalls, but 2N could work and it is not nearly as big of an error as the 5C bid.

East should not bid 4C imo, KQTxx of spades is very likely facing shortness so his hand is much better for defense than offense, and he really doesn't want to encourage partner to bid, or even to play 4C rather than defend 3H. If partner is 2155 it might work well, but it's not that likely.

Side note, what does 4N over 4H mean from west? Slam try, or showing 6-5 in the minors? What does 4S by west mean? 3055, or a cuebid? If 4N and 4S are both cuebids, does 4N imply no spade control? If 4N and 4S are both natural, how does west try for slam, or do you just give up on that?

[aguahombre]

Jlall, on Feb 22 2010, 12:40 PM, said:

East should not bid 4C imo, KQTxx of spades is very likely facing shortness so his hand is much better for defense than offense, and he really doesn't want to encourage partner to bid, or even to play 4C rather than defend 3H. If partner is 2155 it might work well, but it's not that likely.

Yeh, maybe 4c was not that great, but:
1) maybe he liked his minor suit queens.
2) maybe he just wanted to nudge them to 4H. (Didn't know it would happen anyway.)
3)Why does he care what West thinks was his reason?

I don't think 4C invites partner back into the auction, but I guess you do. Different agreements.
Whatever we think of 2NT or of 4C, certainly the last mistake (5C) gets the blame for the result (or the credit, if the opponents are also nuts).

[Jlall]

2N is not a limited bid, ergo 4C cannot just be a signoff. It's not as if west preempted. West has a wide range, and will often bid 5C just based on the fact that east thought that 4C might have a shot at making. I don't think it "invites" anything, but east is not going to bid for no reason, thus west with extra offense may always choose to bid 5C.

[aguahombre]

ok...I thought split range, not wide range. Too weak or too strong for overcall. Different agreements.

[jukmoi]

I think that 4♣ is pointless unless West cannot compete further with suitable hand. So double over 4♥ shows "I want to bid 5♣" obviously with extra playing srength. And double just in case partner has other ideas eg 4♣ was tactical trapping NS.

Still with the actual W hand I would propably pass.

[Cyberyeti]

If I wanted to bid with the E hand, I would have bid 3♠ as I probably want a spade lead against 4♥ and will play 4 of partner's preferred minor otherwise. This would also tell partner not to bid 5♣ on his actual hand looking for strength in the minors.

4♣ certainly doesn't invite partner to bid again with that sort of suit quality, the 5♣ bidder must have visualised xxxx, xxx, xx, AKxx or similar thru rose tinted glasses and decided that one of the games probably makes.

I'd put most of the blame on the 5♣ bidder.

[pooltuna]

phil_20686, on Feb 22 2010, 12:23 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

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SO the auctiohn, starting with South Goes:

1♥ 2N 3♥ 4♣
4♥ 5♣

A double at this point would have been very profitable, but fortuneately south bid on to 5h and went off for a good board.

When this hand was given to some better players there was a strong disagreement. Manythought 2n was poot because of the suit disparity. Some thought 4c was "ridiculouls" as it shoudl be sac suggesting. These experts thoguht 5c was normal at that point (even if they would not have bid 2n originally. Others thought 4C just showed the desire to compete at the 4 level. These experts typicallly thought that 5c was off the planet. I was wondering what other people thoguht of this auction.

Thanks for your time.

I have no real objection to West's 2NT call but lots of problems with East's decision concerning his 4♣ call so for me it is mostly East's fault