[dickiegera]

The opening bid by dealer of 1♦ is passed to me in balancing seat.
I hold: x, KQx, KQx, KQJ1087

Am I better to bid 3♣ or to double then bid 2♣

Partner holds AJxx,xxxx, xxx, Ax
We need to get to 3NT if possible.
I chose to double, partner bid 1♥, I bid 2♣ which was passed out
Comments please.

[helene_t]

I think 3♣ is better than double followed by 2♣. The thing is that if you double, somebody is going to bid spades. Dbl could find a heart fit for you, but in that case p must be quite weak (he has five hearts but couldn't overcall at the 1-level), and opps will be able to outbid you in spades. So try not to double with shortness in an unbid major, particularly spades.

Partner might pass 3♣, though.

If you dbl followed by 2♣, partner shouldn't pass. You will be showing some 15-18 points (a little less than the range for the same action in direct seat), so p needs to go for game. If he bids 2♠, you will bid 2NT, he will bid 3NT.

[ArtK78]

I would bid 3♣ on these cards, but I would not quibble with double followed by 2♣. If double followed by 2♣ did not get you to 3NT, it is unlikely that 3♣ directly will work, either.

Both show good hands with a good club suit. The double followed by 2♣ tends to show a more flexible hand than 3♣ directly 3♣ emphasizes the club suit above all else. This hand is sort of in between, since it could play in hearts, but certainly not in spades.

I think partner's decision is close as to whether to move on after either action.

[Fluffy]

partner should bid 1♠ to be able to bid 2/3♥ later. I think he has a clear move after 2♣, not sure how, but something like 2♦ for example seems to work.

[aguahombre]

If this hand isn't right for 3C, there isn't one. Defined as a hand which would open 1C and rebid 3C.

[jjbrr]

I hate to tell you, but if partner is bidding 1♥ with this hand over double, you were never getting to 3NT anyway, and I suspect you will continue to miss good games with this partner in the future.

[Jlall]

Yeah this is a good hand to bid 3C with, it's a strong player but you have no aces.

[dickiegera]

jjbrr, on Feb 22 2010, 01:14 PM, said:

I hate to tell you, but if partner is bidding 1♥ with this hand over double, you were never getting to 3NT anyway, and I suspect you will continue to miss good games with this partner in the future.

Explain

Do you think 1♠ is better. If so I agree.
You cannot jump with partner's hand in my opinion

[aguahombre]

1S is prepared to bid 2H later. But the same problem about the 3NT decision would exist, since the spade and heart honors might be reversed and the prepared 1S response might still be bid.

Hence, back to not doubling with the balancing hand. After 3c, advancer would probably just check for a diamond stopper and we land in 3NT. Would then be unlucky if opps can run five tricks (xxxx AJXX XXX AX or even the given layout).

[jjbrr]

dickiegera, on Feb 22 2010, 03:42 PM, said:

jjbrr, on Feb 22 2010, 01:14 PM, said:

I hate to tell you, but if partner is bidding 1♥ with this hand over double, you were never getting to 3NT anyway, and I suspect you will continue to miss good games with this partner in the future.

Explain

Do you think 1♠ is better. If so I agree.
You cannot jump with partner's hand in my opinion

From "Commonly Used Conventions: Takeout Doubles"

"Make a jump response in your
suit with 9–11 HCP, or a good 8
HCP and some distribution. Suppose
you hold:
♠K 10 3 ♥Q J 7 4 3 ♦10 4 3 ♣A 3.
You should not bid 1♥ — you
are too strong. You should jump
to 2♥, a bid that is invitational.
Partner can pass if he has a
minimum takeout double. If he has
13 points and you have 10, that’s
not enough for game. If he has
extra, he can bid again."

With the hand you provided, I think he bid the wrong suit and the wrong level.

[dickiegera]

jjbrr, on Feb 22 2010, 04:12 PM, said:

dickiegera, on Feb 22 2010, 03:42 PM, said:

jjbrr, on Feb 22 2010, 01:14 PM, said:

I hate to tell you, but if partner is bidding 1♥ with this hand over double, you were never getting to 3NT anyway, and I suspect you will continue to miss good games with this partner in the future.

Explain

Do you think 1♠ is better. If so I agree.
You cannot jump with partner's hand in my opinion

From "Commonly Used Conventions: Takeout Doubles"

"Make a jump response in your
suit with 9–11 HCP, or a good 8
HCP and some distribution. Suppose
you hold:
♠K 10 3 ♥Q J 7 4 3 ♦10 4 3 ♣A 3.
You should not bid 1♥ — you
are too strong. You should jump
to 2♥, a bid that is invitational.
Partner can pass if he has a
minimum takeout double. If he has
13 points and you have 10, that’s
not enough for game. If he has
extra, he can bid again."

With the hand you provided, I think he bid the wrong suit and the wrong level.

It is not a takeout double we are talking about here.

We are talking about a balancing double.

[aguahombre]

yep...a balancing double is different, and the advances are different. Advancer traditionally subtracts a King (3pts) from his holding to make up for the potentially 3 Pts lighter balancing action.

[655321]

I think that partner's pass of 2♣, holding 2 Aces and hearing you double then bid a new suit, was exceptionally passive to say the least.

[PhantomSac]

655321, on Feb 22 2010, 05:43 PM, said:

I think that partner's pass of 2♣, holding 2 Aces and hearing you double then bid a new suit, was exceptionally passive to say the least.

Master of the understatement!

[jmcw]

aguahombre, on Feb 22 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

If this hand isn't right for 3C, there isn't one.  Defined as a hand which would open 1C and rebid 3C.

Says it well