[Rado]

Hi Ron
What about some vodka with fresh vegetables + cheese salad?
Rado

[sceptic]

I suggest that, when you are walking about in the Antartic, you should wear a jolly warm coat and avoid eating yellow snow

[Cascade]

What is going on in this thread?

Is there no original post?

[inquiry]

Cascade, on Jul 17 2004, 08:00 PM, said:

What is going on in this thread?

Is there no original post?

Ron posted this early this morning mytime at or about the same instance that the system had a major crash. The result was a post with a title, and no text. It was funny situation. Hope Ron will share with us what the post is really suppose to be about.

Ben

[Dwayne]

Ben said:

Hope Ron will share with us what the post is really suppose to be about. 

Not all Ben. Quite frankly this could make for a far more sensible thread than many that pass by on a daily basis.

If we're after suggestions, then I can confidently assert that one should never play leapfrog with unicorns.

Dwayne-ong

[the hog]

All right, all right - very funny!

The problem was actually a quesion to which I welcome suggestions, but don't really think I'll get anything sensible as no one else plays this.

Pd opens 2H - weak 2 in S or H + minor, next hand bids 3D
You hold
AKxxx
KJ
x
Qxxxx

Th way we play is 3H/S pass/correct, and X is for penalties. Not sure this is ideal. What do you do with this hand, and can anyone suggest a better scheme over intervention?

[MickyB]

There's too great a chance that partner has the red suits, you have to pass. If they have a huge diamond fit you will probably hear a raise anyway, then you can get involved later. I like double as pass or correct in this sort of situation.

[Cascade]

I agree I think that you have to play takeout doubles over these multi-type things.

This is the weakness of these methods while they are designed to pre-empt the opponents when the opponents start bidding and the hand belongs to us we often get pre-empted.

I would play double for takeout but this hand is not good enough unless perhaps the red suit option is 5-5 so you are comfortable with partner passing 3!d.

[inquiry]

The_Hog, on Jul 18 2004, 04:32 AM, said:

All right, all right - very funny!

The problem was actually a quesion to which I welcome suggestions, but don't really think I'll get anything sensible as no one else plays this.

Pd opens 2H - weak 2 in S or H + minor, next hand bids 3D
You hold
AKxxx
KJ
x
Qxxxx

Th way we play is 3H/S pass/correct, and X is for penalties. Not sure this is ideal. What do you do with this hand, and can anyone suggest a better scheme over intervention?

Well, for those who don't play opening 2♥ shows weak two in either major, imagine the auction went 2♦ (multi)- (3♦) - ? to you... same position, same information.

I would play double here as penatly, and 3♥ pass/correct, and 3♠ as pass/correct.... pretty much system on. Here, it is not perfect, but i would bid 3♥ to play and if parnter corrects to 3♠, then i reconsider and probably bid 4♠.

[Chamaco]

inquiry, on Jul 18 2004, 11:45 AM, said:

i would bid 3♥ to play and if parnter corrects to 3♠, then i reconsider and probably bid 4♠.

Ron,
could you comment more on this concept for less experienced players like me ?

From my pespective I would want to be in game regardless, having a 6 loser's hand with at least doubleton honors support opposite a "weak 2", but I guess it depends on how wild your weak 2's are.

[hrothgar]

The_Hog, on Jul 18 2004, 11:32 AM, said:

All right, all right - very funny! 

The problem was actually a quesion to which I welcome suggestions, but don't really think I'll get anything sensible as no one else plays this.

Pd opens 2H - weak 2 in S or H + minor, next hand bids 3D
You hold
AKxxx
KJ
x
Qxxxx

Th way we play is 3H/S pass/correct, and X is for penalties. Not sure this is ideal. What do you do with this hand, and can anyone suggest a better scheme over intervention?

Hi Ron

I don't have much experience with this preemptive style. With this said and done, I was able to run a quick simulation to attempt to model what class of hand parter has. Based on this, partner is expected to hold:

Single suited hand with Spades: ~35% of the time
Two suited hand with Hearts and Clubs: ~ 39% of the time
Two suited hand with Hearts and Diamonds: ~ 26% of the time

If there's one thing that's pretty clear, would can't double 3D for penalty "hoping" that the opponents have stumbled into a misfit. The next question is whether you're willing to contract for game opposite a 5-5 with Hearts and Clubs? I think that 5C should be a readonable contract. You rate to lose a pair of bullets, but nothing more. 4H will be much trickier and should go bust if partner has the red suits.

My goal will be to steer the contract towards either 4S or 5C. IF partner has the red suits, I'll be forced to play 5HX for a bottom.

I plan to temporize with 4D.

I'll pass 4S if I am lucky enough to hear this.
If partner rebids 4H as expected (he'll do so roughly 2/3rds of the time), then I'll bid 4N or 5C (whichever bid asks for partner's minor)

I expect to score well 75% of the time and get a bottom the other 25%

[mikestar]

I agree with Richard's suggestion given your methods. I really like the idea of double as pass or correct and if your were playing that double is the best choice.
Partner passes with the red suits, bids 3H with hearts and clubs or bids 3S. We get to 4S or 5C (perhaps 4H if we have the tools to investigate suit quality).

While defending 3DX may result in a bottom, it has better prospects than the heart game if partner has the reds. And even down 1 is a fine score if everybody else is going minus with your cards.

[Fluffy]

inquiry, on Jul 18 2004, 11:45 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jul 18 2004, 04:32 AM, said:

All right, all right - very funny! 

The problem was actually a quesion to which I welcome suggestions, but don't really think I'll get anything sensible as no one else plays this.

Pd opens 2H - weak 2 in S or H + minor, next hand bids 3D
You hold
AKxxx
KJ
x
Qxxxx

Th way we play is 3H/S pass/correct, and X is for penalties. Not sure this is ideal. What do you do with this hand, and can anyone suggest a better scheme over intervention?

Well, for those who don't play opening 2♥ shows weak two in either major, imagine the auction went 2♦ (multi)- (3♦) - ? to you... same position, same information.

I would play double here as penatly, and 3♥ pass/correct, and 3♠ as pass/correct.... pretty much system on. Here, it is not perfect, but i would bid 3♥ to play and if parnter corrects to 3♠, then i reconsider and probably bid 4♠.

Hi Ben!, I think you made a small mistake, Ron said weak in ♠ or a weak 2-suitter with ♥+ minor.

That means partner is likelly to hold weak red 2-suiter, and that also means opponents will go 1/2 off, ,so pass looks like the best option.

In the case partner has ♣ or ♠ they have a great fit and auction will probably continue, maybe at a too risky level for your purposes but.... still you will have an option to bid something.

Playing double here as I double if it is your suit, otherwise tell me some more, looks more sensible, at least at level 3.

[the hog]

Thanks all. The problem on this was that parner had D, as it transpires. So X for takeout would have worked well here. Perhaps we should change to X for takeout.

Mauro, the suit quality really depends on vulnerability.
Nv v vul
KTxxx
x
xx
QJTxx
would be acceptable

V vs NV could go up to
AQTxxx
x
x
KJTxx
With any more than this we would open with a 1 bid.

Ron

[Fluffy]

Ooooops!

I also missunderstood the explanation , so 2♥ opening is any weak major-minor 2-suiter right?

[the hog]

No Fluffy, this is the full structure:

2D = weak 2 in H or 5S + 5minor
2H = weak 2 in S or 5H and 5 minor
2S = weak minor pre empt or 5/5 Majors
2N = both minors
3C/D = constructive minor pre empt

[Cascade]

While I think that double for takeout is best on these auctions it is not a panacea.

Next time they will overcall diamonds and you will have ♦ AQJ9x and wish that you had an axe to wield.

Playing double for takeout though gives you the most options for bidding the different hands that you can hold:

2♥ (3♦) ?

Dbl what have you got?
3♥ I have hearts
3♠ I have spades
3NT I have diamonds
4♣ I have clubs
...

Playing penalty doubles:

Dbl I have diamonds
3♥ what have you got?
3♠ probably still what have you got?
3NT I have diamonds - hey didn't we already have a bid for that?
4♣ ???

[the hog]

Sounds reasonable, Wayne. Thx